breaking dawn by stephenie meyer

the traditional gift for a first anniversary is paper. for bella and edward, it’s a teenage engagement, last minute wedding and a scary demon-spawn baby! but for us at talk lit, get hit our gift has been this twilight saga megamix extravaganza. this episode sees us wrapping up our anniversary celebrations with one last episode on breaking dawn by stephenie meyer. 

as the sun goes down on 2023 and we prepare for the new dawn to break, tune in (werewolf-groupthink style) to see if sweet baby seth clearwater is enough to absolve the shared trauma of cooking chicken, human moments and renesmee. 

we’d love your feedback on the pod! have your say here <3

special things mentioned in the episode:

• timeline from twilight lexicon
• breaking dawn playlist from stephenie meyer

synopsis music: for when it rains by juan sanchez

choose our next podcast read by going here and voting in the first week of each month!

make sure you subscribe to hear our groundbreaking thoughts as soon as they are unleashed. if you want to be on the same page as us, follow us at talklit.gethit on Instagram and TikTok.

theme music born from the creative genius of Big Boi B.

join talk lit, get hit podcast for deep dives into the hottest BookTok recommendations, trending contemporary fiction, and literary favourites! each episode features book discussions, spoiler-filled chats, and thoughtful literary analysis of novels everyone is talking about - from viral romance and fantasy to modern classics. whether you’re looking for BookTok book reviews, author interviews, or a virtual book club experience, out podcast is your go-to space for readers who love stories and want to explore them in depth.

talk lit, get hit are reading and recording on Giabal, Jagera, Jarowair & Turrbal lands. we acknowledge the cultural diversity of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and pay respect to Elders past, present and future. always was, always will be.  

Transcript

Laura 0:00

Hello and welcome to Talk Wit Get Hit, a podcast where we read questionable books recommended to us by social media and talk shit about them.

Eryn 0:08

We're Bridget, Erin, and Laura, three friends who haven't mentally progressed since high school, where we bonded over a love of music and books, but mainly Twilight.

Bridget 0:16

Brace yourself for a heady cocktail of somewhat highbrow and incredibly lowbrow ramblings about all the books the internet loves and our journey to figure out why.

Laura 0:23

The end is finally here. We are finally, finally, finally up to book number four of our Twilight saga Mega Mix Extravaganza.

Eryn 0:32

Boop boo-boo-boo! I felt like it needed to happen. I'm sorry, Bridget, but every time you've announced the Mega Mix Extravaganza, I've been like on the cusp. I've held back for three episodes. And it's finally time. Are we gonna split this into two?

Bridget 0:47

Part one, part two. Oh stop.

Laura 0:50

Surely not. I mean, I guess we'll see. We'll see how much we have to say. Oh my goodness. I have no witty puns for this episode, only overwhelming relief at finally reaching this. The pinnacle of not just the Twilight Saga Mega makes extravaganza, but of our podcasting career.

Eryn 1:11

Yes, it's been a year of doing the pod. I feel like the whole year has been leading up to this moment. It is something that we like foretold from the very beginning that we wanted to talk about Twilight. I think even early on we spoke about doing this special for the one-year anniversary, and now it's here, and we're doing it, and we're finished it, and it's just crazy to think about.

Laura 1:35

I absolutely agree. I can never not come to podcast recording and not think about the very first podcast that we ever recorded, which was eight hours long.

Bridget 1:48

I don't even think it was.

Eryn 1:49

I think we've we just recorded all day, but we didn't have that much content.

Laura 1:55

I don't even know. It lives in folklore now. We'll never know the answer for sure.

Bridget 1:59

I listened to the first one of the day and I was like, gee, we sound bad.

Laura 2:05

It's rough going. Like, if you're if you're looking back through those, power to you.

Eryn 2:10

We have come a really long way in a year, like to reflect on where we started. We are leaps and bounds ahead of where we were, of where we even thought we would be. The future seemed so uncertain for what this pod was gonna look like. I know we talked about doing a yearly anniversary, but I think also it was like unclear if we would even make it this far. Like, we just kept kind of planning each month as it came, and then here we are, like a year later. That's so crazy. And we've seen a lot of success. We've been approached by companies, we've talked to some publication companies, we made the like podcast charts, that was fun. Put ourselves in the ring for the Australian Podcast Awards, that was really cool. Like, we've done some really cool shit.

Laura 2:58

All things that I never imagined us doing, and all things that I never would have done without the both of you as well. So I'm very happy that we get to do this together. Kicking my feet under the table is so cute.

Eryn 3:10

Yeah, there's no way this would have gotten off the ground just on my own. There's no way I would have done the social media or the editing, or honestly, half of the reading that I've had to do for this if I wasn't being held accountable by my two co-hosts.

Laura 3:23

And honestly, like if it weren't for people that do engage with the podcast and send us sweet messages and follow the show, follow the Instagram, check in on what we're doing, I would be so demotivated. And although we had no sort of real expectations about where this was headed and what we were gonna do with it, every time we get one of those messages, I honestly am just levitating off the ground. Yeah. So to that, like, thank you so much because it's just such a like oh, it's just such a good, fizzy feeling, and I'm so happy we all get to talk about books together.

Bridget 4:01

I feel like we've made a little community.

Eryn 4:03

It's so cute, and it still blows my mind that people even listen. Like, we put it out there for people to listen, and like it's so easy to think that we're just like shouting aimlessly into a void, but we have actual proof that people listen, and we have proof that people uh want to talk to us about it and want to hear what we have to say, and that's just such a crazy concept. And I'm so excited. It's been a really good year of doing the pod, and I'm really excited to see what the rest of the pod future looks like. We have no Alice in our team to tell us, so we just have to figure it out as we go.

Laura 4:42

I think that's an excellent, seamless transition because I also realized as we were speaking that I failed to mention that the book we are reading, in case book four wasn't enough for you. We just got too excited. I got so excited. I we're reading Breaking Dawn. Just so you guys know, it's by Stephanie Meyer and it's book number four in the Twilight saga.

Eryn 5:04

You know it. You've read the episode title already, anyway. Like, yeah, happy here.

Laura 5:10

This isn't news to you.

Eryn 5:11

Don't play coy.

Laura 5:12

Uh, you guys are so sexy when you're teasing us.

Eryn 5:20

Uh my well, kick it in.

Laura 5:22

We'll snow.

Bridget 5:23

We'll leave that in. We'll leave it in. Wednesday we will do like an uncut episode. And God, I can't wait. Oh.

Laura 5:30

Immediately, immediately jail. Record and release immediately. Immediately no. If we ever did one of those live podcast comments, I've it it's over for us.

Eryn 5:42

I I would need severe PR training before.

Bridget 5:47

I'd need training in how to like construct a sentence without using like um and massive pauses in between my thoughts.

Eryn 5:55

It would be just so funny to imagine us hosting something and being like, I forgot what I was saying. Or like I was trying to make a point, but it's gone now. So you've just got my half a sentence.

Bridget 6:07

I feel like I've been talking about this for like three minutes that I've actually haven't actually said anything.

Laura 6:12

God forbid we're actually prepared.

Bridget 6:16

Erin, like two minutes before the clay's show time, and she's there with her headphones on, seriously trying to finish the book.

Eryn 6:24

That is so real. I would be finishing it on stage while we're getting introduced.

Laura 6:30

Using the term raw dogging in a professional way.

Eryn 6:34

God, why do people even listen to this show?

Laura 6:40

Oh, anyway, we are so thankful that you do on this. So happy to be here. You are our bravest soldiers. Let's tie in to the warfare we face in this fourth book of the Twilight Saga. It has been no small feat to read these books again, and if you've listened to our previous three episodes on Twilight, New Moon, and Eclipse, the reread experience has been a hefty ordeal. And so, with that in mind, how are you both feeling heading into the final book?

Eryn 7:12

I was not looking forward to this one. It is the biggest book. It is bigger than the rest of them. This is the only one that I think I waited for it to come out to read it. Like I pre-ordered this book and stuff like that, and I remember being really excited before it came out the first time and being really disappointed with it. And so I wasn't excited to read this one because I even though I didn't remember it, I knew it was not gonna be good.

Bridget 7:38

I can't remember how I ended up feeling about it, but I definitely remember how I felt about it in the lead up. Like vividly remember one day walking home from school and I was talking to somebody about it, and I was saying I had this theory, and I'm sure I didn't make it up myself. The title breaking dawn meant that she would choose Jacob. I don't know, just the astral theme. Somehow I convinced myself that she was going to leave Edward and choose Jacob, which seems so weird to me now, but it was a legitimate stress I had in my life at the time.

Laura 8:08

So you talking about that theory. Yeah.

Bridget 8:11

This time reading, I think it was a bit of a struggle for me to get through Eclipse. I had to keep stopping to roll my eyes, thinking about it before I started reading, and I knew that I wasn't going to be impressed by it.

Laura 8:22

Likewise, I was I remember this as being my least favourite of the books, and same Erin, I remember waiting for it to come out, being really, really excited, having really high hopes, and having those hopes quickly dashed. So I think given my exhaustion having just smashed Eclipse and New Moon, both of which were pretty painful for me to read, I was pretty fatigued heading into this and not looking forward to it.

Eryn 8:50

As always, if you don't know what happens in Breaking Dawn, then where the hell you been, Loka? Um, but if you don't want it spoiled for you, now's your time to get out of here. Go listen to the other episodes. We'll be chatting about all the different themes covered in Breaking Dawn. So as a listener, please make sure to do your own due diligence. But some key ones we'll be talking about are pregnancy, abuse, racism, mental illness, suicide, and violence. So please proceed with caution.

Laura 9:17

To be irrevocably in love with a vampire is both fantasy and nightmare, woven into a dangerously heightened reality for Bella Swan.

Eryn 9:24

Pulled in one direction by her intense passion for Edward Cullen, and in another by her profound connection to a werewolf Jacob Black, a tumultuous year of temptation, loss, and strife have led her to the ultimate turning point.

Bridget 9:38

Her imminent choice to either join the dark but seductive world of immortals or to pursue a fully human life has become the thread from which the fates of two tribes hangs.

Laura 9:48

We have finished, we've done it, we've read the book, we've finished the series, so if you could briefly sum up your feelings, if you could cut the shit, ladies. How are you feeling?

Eryn 10:00

I smashed this audiobook, and I'll admit I fell asleep during it, and I just did a quick summary reread to make sure I didn't miss anything, and I did not miss anything. I wasn't sure if nothing happened because I was sleeping through what happened, or if truly nothing happened, and the conclusion I reached is nothing happened.

Laura 10:19

I agree. It kind of shocked me how much nothing happened. I think having finished this, I am filled with relief, and I am very much looking forward to reading a book that is not this series.

Bridget 10:32

I feel the same. Although I did just start reading Midnight Sun, so I don't know what's wrong with me, but um I I don't know. I didn't it wasn't as bad as I thought it was gonna be.

Laura 10:41

What a stupid lamb.

Bridget 10:42

What a sickistic lion.

Laura 10:45

Oh my god. Alrighty, so okay, that's a little teaser, a little tidbit for you all. Um, I think just as we have done with the previous episodes, of course, we need to address the timeline this book takes place over. So buckle up, prepare to be wild, but I will say wow, but not quite as wild as with the previous episodes. Depends on your feelings around how proud you were before, I guess. Okay, so Eclipse ends on the 16th of June, and breaking dawn pretty much picks up on the 12th of August, give or take, when Bella calls Seth to see if he has any news on Jacob, who has run away from home with a little knapsack to deal with how upset he is about his unrequited love and her recent betrothal. The next day, Bella and Edward are married. Jacob crashes the ceremony and trembles himself senseless, and Edward and Bella head off on their honeymoon. The very next day, we reach the absolute pinnacle of Bella's existence, and her and Edward get freaky for the very first time. Between the 15th and the 20th, Edward and Bella go on a really confusing montage of bruises, blame, and also lighthearted holiday fun. Gotta have some diversity. Bella also starts having strange dreams about a mysterious child. What could it mean? And also she eats a bunch of eggs. Such a weird plot point. It's never clarified why she wants so many eggs. They bang again for the second time ever on the 21st of August. Bella realizes she's pregnant 10 days later, and the pair return to Forks. We cut to the 7th of September, and it's suddenly in Jacob's point of view. Bella is sick, question mark, and the pack is uncertain about what to do, but Jacob is freaking out. Later that same day, Jacob discovers plot twist, she's actually pregnant and becomes the alpha wolf and starts a new pack. On the 10th of September, Bella goes into labor and the baby is born. Edward changes Bella and Jacob imprints on Renezme. Big day. Once again, they have huge days. They are booked and busy in this book. They will be really tired. I think this next day can top it. Three days later, on the 13th of September, Bella awakens as a vampire, hunts for the very first time, finds out the truth about her sea creature daughter and former bestie, gets a new house, bones for the first time as a vampire, and also celebrates her birthday. The next day, Jacob phases in front of Charlie, and Charlie is reunited with Bella and the baby. From October through till November, time does pass, uh, but it's honestly too mundane to describe. But on the 10th of December, shit hits the fan with a misunderstanding about the baby, like what the hell it actually is. And 20 days later, the Cullens have recruited a bunch of friends, done a whole lot of research, forged some documents, and avoided a whole lot, like a flat-out massacre. Thank God. So they they organise that pretty quick start. Yeah.

Eryn 13:43

Wouldn't want there to be any consequences for our actions or anything. No, thank you.

Laura 13:49

Thank God. Every day I pray to Stephanie for what she's given us. On the 1st of January, almost two years after Bella moves to Forks for the first time, Bella allows Edward to read her mind for the very first time ever, and the pair begin their slice of Forever the End. It is interesting because this book takes place over the longest period of time out of any of the books, but it is still August, you know, midway through August through to the start of January. So it's still not even time for a full-term pregnancy, but they fit in a lot. Stephanie Meyer loves to tack in like a little bit of passing of time in an epilogue, like the thing with Jacob running away that's in the epilogue, I think, of Eclipse. Um, and to me, psh, nah, that shit doesn't count. Like, her prologues and epilogues speak to just like a total lack of faith in her ability to tell a good story. Like, you don't need a little teaser if the book is just good.

Eryn 14:49

This is something that has irritated me the whole time, and I didn't realize it the first time reading it. Why in every book is she explaining what happened in the last book and like reintroducing the characters? Like, babe, we're not reading this gigantic book if we don't know that Edward Cullen is your vampire boyfriend. You don't have to keep telling us the plot points that were in the last three books.

Bridget 15:11

We know them. It's giving the second chapter of a Babysithers Club book where they literally just say the same story about how the club was created. Christy did this, then this happened, then this happened. It's the same every book. It's this. I I was wondering, we were talking about it the other day, and I was wondering if it's because I don't read that many series. Is it a thing that happens in series? I don't know.

Eryn 15:31

A series will only like explain or like self-refer to itself like that if it's bringing up something that was kind of relevant in one book and then not really mentioned for a little while, and it just wants to remind the readers of something they might have forgotten or missed. But the stuff that she like brings back to our attention is not anything that we would have forgotten or missed. Like, there is nothing subtle in any of these books, anyway, to have missed it. But even if there was, we wouldn't have forgotten.

Laura 15:58

No, because like three things happen each book, and and the way that she retells it is like, yep, that's me. The clumsy girl with the werewolf best friend. Trust me, right? Like, yeah, it's so unsophisticated, it's so unnecessary.

Eryn 16:12

Yeah, the first chapter of every one of these books is you're probably wondering how I got myself into this situation. Yep, that's me. The prefaces are also shit. They annoy me, especially the ones that are like random quotes or whatever, and the quotes don't really have anything to do with anything. And it's especially annoying in Breaking Dawn because they've got the alternating POV. So each book in the book has its own preface, and it's like, we don't need all this. That alone could be stripped out of this book, let alone all the nonsense that happens.

Bridget 16:45

It's funny that you brought up the changing POVs and the prefaces for the chapters and everything, because I found a really funny quote from Stephanie Meyer in an interview, and it sort of ties in with what we were just talking about. Stephanie was asked about why she chose to include Jacob's point of view in this story as well, and she says, in the first rough draft, it was Bella throughout the whole story. There's a section of the story where Bella's pretty much stuck on a couch and is not part of anything that's going on, and she's just hearing about it from the outside, and it's boring. So when I went back to do this, I realized that where the action was was something we could only get through the first person perspective of Jacob. And once I made that decision, I was really glad I had because that was the most fun section to write out of the whole story. So she thinks that it would have been boring if it was just Bella.

Eryn 17:32

You slash babe, it's always been boring. And I actually agree, I liked Jacob's point of view.

Bridget 17:39

I hate the way Jacob is written. I just don't find it realistic.

Laura 17:43

I'm a little bit of both. I enjoyed like the relief of not having to be in Bella's head. Um, I think like, God imagine, like Stephanie's dead on. It would have been absolutely so boring. Not just to be hanging out on the couch, although it probably only takes place over like two days, so it wouldn't have been much of a big deal. Um, but also to have Bella's thought process going around and around and around. It would have been so insufferable. And although I didn't particularly enjoy being in Jacob's head, I liked seeing other characters in the book from his point of view. I liked his interactions, like he's also got a bit of a crush on Carlisle. Like he loves Carlisle so much. The good vampire fine. Like he I would I would feel really bad about killing him. Protect him but better kill him. I enjoyed it, but I also still like am so sick of that man.

Bridget 18:35

You're right. We did get some really interesting perspectives and just new characters, like thank god for Seth Clearwater. Oh baby Angel. I think another thing, like with her writing of Jacob, it was just so cliche, like those really cringy titles of the chapters. And they were a lot of them were really long. So long and so emo. So emo. It was like a Tumblr post of a 14-year-old just discovering like pop punk music for the first time or something. But we've all been there. We've all been there. They were just the most basic quotes that anyone could write. There's just nothing special about it, I think, is what is what I landed on. It just really seems like someone who's like, oh, life sucks and then you die.

Laura 19:20

I agree with that. And I think like so many of the jokes in this that Stephanie Meyer used are like jokes that just are very, very common and very, very known. Like, like Life Sucks and You Die, or like all of the blonde blonde jokes that Jacob tells. Very painful. Like, not only has Rosalie heard them all, but we all have. Um, another thing is Jacob's new catchphrase where he just starts saying butter bing like a lot.

Eryn 19:47

I loved it. When when that first happened in the audiobook, I was like, hang on.

Laura 19:56

Catchphrase girl, it kills me. I hated it so much. It made me hate him more than anything else he's ever done.

Eryn 20:04

So cringy. I think that is his redemption art. Him like rocking up doing some finger guns, bada bing, bada boom, baby. No, that's showbiz.

Laura 20:15

No, that is man that watches the big bang boo where Dora and like ultimately does exactly what Jacob Black does and pines for a girl that zinger. Love him.

Eryn 20:27

But like, it's just it's really indicative of the complete lack of clear direction she had for Jacob. The blonde jokes, I had no idea they even happened. When the first one popped out, I was like, what is this?

Bridget 20:42

I really hated it. I just the immaturity was shining through once again.

Eryn 20:46

I will say, I think his interactions with Seth and Leah were actually quite good. Agree. When he was with the pack, he's normal and he's not as insufferable. I don't know, off the top of my head, aside from how he treats Leah, there's not a lot I think he does wrong in terms of like his interactions with the pack. And so I wonder if maybe subconsciously, actually, no, I'm giving Stephanie Meyer way too much credit. Maybe you could make the argument that he behaves like a child or like really out of pocket when he's around Bella because like maybe his instincts are confused, like he thinks that she's his mate, but also she's not his mate. And so he's just like kind of confused and in that really like angsty teen space as a werewolf. Because he's he doesn't act like that all the time, and I think that's why I get so confused with or like feel like I am a Jacob defender, because he's not always a bad guy. Stephanie has a clear direction of him with the pack, but when he's with Bella, she doesn't know what to do with him. She he is literally two different characters at once. And that sucks, because he is cool with the pack.

Bridget 21:50

I think you're right. For me, this book is the death of Edward and the death of Bella. Like, this is the end of any attachment I have for either of them. It's its favourite in Rissanne when she becomes pregnant. It's exactly the same. They become so boring, and the only redeeming quality is Jacob with the pack. Not even the main pack, it's with his new little mini pack. It's the only good bit, I think.

Eryn 22:16

I really like that stuff. Like Laura said, Jacob has a crush on Carlisle, which like respect. But I like seeing Jacob develop these relations with the vampires on his own terms, not connected to Edward or anything like that. I liked seeing him come into his own as an alpha. And even when he rejected Sam as the alpha and was like, no, I'm doing my own thing, and then he gets his own pack anyway, and he's like, Well, fuck, how do I be an alpha on my terms? But sometimes I do have to tell them what to do and what's that gonna look like. I really liked the scene where Sam tries to control both Seth and Jacob, and he may he's like got Seth bowing down or whatever, and Jacob like won't do it, and then he runs away, and Seth trots on after him, like, hee, let's go, wagging his little puppy tail. I liked it. I really liked it.

Laura 23:05

The concept, but I think the execution, like it's literally a sentence. Like I thought it's I can't remember it says it literally says, and then I became the alpha.

Eryn 23:15

Which is hard because they say, and like in the other books, it's been shown that the alpha's like word is the rules, and so it's really hard to not do what your alpha tells you to do, but suddenly it's so easy to not do what the alpha tells you to do. Don't look into it too deeply. She just she's only just learnt what an alpha is.

Bridget 23:34

Well, I'm assuming she made up beta.

Eryn 23:36

Yeah, she she made up the wolf terms, you're right. I'm assuming what she means is that then back in New Moon and stuff, while he technically could be the alpha, he wasn't ready to be the alpha and thus couldn't break those alpha chains until he was ready. I've watched a lot of teen wolves.

Laura 23:55

I don't know if it has to do with him being ready, because I think there's a line, like I guess ready inside himself, sure, but I think there is a line something like Sam offers it to him and is like, you actually should be the alpha. It's your right, and Jacob's like, no, I don't want that. I think he just has to find out what matters to him and like where he will draw the line. And I yeah, I do like that it comes after a period of growth for him where he's gone to the the Cullens, seen Bella, has worked alongside them and had a little bit of reflection about like actually, you know what? Like, they are exactly who they say they are, they have never harmed anybody, they actually seem to be working alongside us, and also I love Bella, so I don't think that we should be doing this.

Bridget 24:41

It does frustrate me though that it took him so long to realize it's it's always been there in front of him. They've never hurt anybody, and he's just never been willing to get past his own prejudices and it could have happened so long ago, and we could have had so much, I think.

Eryn 24:57

It's crazy as well, because it's not even like you could say, Oh, he's been indoctrinated about this since birth, because he hasn't been. He's only really been drinking the Kool-Aid for 12 months or so, or probably less. So the fact that he's so up in arms about it and he's just in this like groupthink mentality, and maybe that's because of the shared brain cells that all the werewolves have, but it is pretty crazy how quickly he adopts the views and how passionately he defends them, and then again how quickly he abandons them. Like, he's just like I put the one food in and the one food in. It is remiss of us to go too far into the pod without talking about the shit show that is the start of this book. The wedding is atrocious, the honeymoon equally atrocious. Like, let's let's talk about this shit. We should do this. You're absolutely right. I was really surprised listening to this, getting to the honeymoon. Can't believe that the honeymoon is at an island named after their mum. That's so weird. It's weird. It's so weird.

Bridget 26:02

You know what I think is also so funny. Like, it's it's in like they've got to travel through Rio's in Brazil. Do they see an inch of Brazil? No, this this island could have been anywhere in the world, yeah, and it would have been exactly the same, but for some reason the distinction was made that it was in Brazil. I don't I always always find that really funny.

Eryn 26:24

No, I agree. I kept thinking, why are they going so far just to bang? Like you could go anywhere, go to a bloody abandoned warehouse if you want to.

Bridget 26:33

In the movie, they do like spend a little bit of time dancing in the streets. Um like making out because there's all these other people making out and then they're making out as well. But oh god.

Laura 26:43

Also, you know, I just was thinking in relation to this, I don't understand how the Cullens have collectively been alive for so long and they have so much wealth. It is weird that the Cullens don't have a pilot's license or a plane.

Eryn 26:57

Yeah, like a helicopter at least to just like bop on over.

Bridget 27:00

Yeah, it would solve a lot of their problems. Yeah.

Eryn 27:03

With how fast they need to get to Italy all the time. Like, Jesus Christ, dig an underground tunnel if you have to, it'd be faster.

Laura 27:11

And you know, they I fully believe that they could tunnel under the earth if they wanted to, hey.

Eryn 27:16

Shit, yeah, with their like diamond-encrusted skin or whatever, they'd be breaking rocks. They would be smashing through soil, like it would be like the foxes in Fantastic Mr.

Laura 27:24

Fox.

Eryn 27:25

The wedding those. I jumped ahead straight to Crazy Island, but we should talk about the wedding. Because I think it's really nice when Charlie and Renee hold hands as they like watch her go off with Edward after the wedding and stuff. It's nice in like a sentimental sense, but it's also funny because I I imagine what Stephanie is trying to do here is have the parents be like, our little girl's all grown up, and it's like, no thanks to you fuckers. Like, what have you done? We are happy.

Laura 27:57

You have our blessing.

Eryn 27:59

Wasn't gonna ask for it anyway, bitches. The whole blessing thing, like Charlie is iconic for being so blindsided by the proposal that he instantly just goes, I'm not telling you, mum.

Laura 28:14

Like, and then the mum turns around and is like, I think that's great. Like, I thought you guys were already married, kinda. Like, you're 17, Slay.

Eryn 28:23

I hated that scene. I think it's so just it's incorrect. It is not what her mum would do. And when her mum was like, You are so much more responsible than I ever was, Bella. It is so different when you get married as a teenager versus when I got married as a teenager.

Laura 28:40

You are so unique and awesome.

Bridget 28:42

Like, you're not like other girls. Also, like Jacob's cameo in it. I thought that was interesting. I think he he reacted in a bigger way when he found out that Bella was still planning to get some than when he found out that Bella was going to be turned into a vampire, which I think also comes back to Stephanie's beliefs about sex before marriage and sex in general, I guess. But I think he I think he was more angry about that than becoming a vampire. He's just a little incel.

Eryn 29:11

Yeah.

Laura 29:13

I mean, what would be more important to like a 16-year-old boy? I don't know. But also that scene was so the secondhand embarrassment from Bella actually being like, um, yeah, actually, I will be, I will be getting that D. Thank you so much. Like, why there was Why are we talking about this? Yeah, you don't need to say that.

Eryn 29:35

She's so easily baited. I don't know. Obviously, everybody has different journeys, but why are you all so hung up on whether Bella is hooking up or not? And also, at that point, like having graduated high school and stuff, like, what's the stats? Like, 50% of your cohort would have had sex before they finished high school anyway. So, like, that how does he know that she hasn't had sex anyway? Like, why are we all so hung up on it?

Bridget 30:01

He and he knows she's gonna be turned into a vampire. Why why does anyone care at this point?

Eryn 30:05

Yeah, why are we drawing the line at sex?

Bridget 30:07

Same argument that we had for Eclipse.

Eryn 30:09

Why does anyone care? Oh my god. Can only assume it's because Jacob's not having any sex and he's just jealous, and he has to listen through his like fox senses to all his bloody pack mates having sex with their mates.

Bridget 30:21

Um, he still keeps looking at Bella like without blinking, hoping that it will imprint. And the mating bomb will snap into place. Giving real Tamlin vibes. Maybe if we talk about sex, the imprinting bond will come through.

Laura 30:34

Yeah. Rotting out. Yeah. He was! He was running out in the forests of Washington.

Eryn 30:42

Oh my god, he is so tablin-coated. After that talk about sex, we have to talk about the no sex sex scene. No sex sex scenes. Well, see, I had deluded myself. I actually thought there was a sex scene in this book. Me too. When it happened, I didn't realize it had happened. I was like screen. It's like I had a shower and then we spent the night together. And then the next day.

Bridget 31:13

It was like he pulled me deeper into the water or something, and that was it. Yeah.

Eryn 31:17

Like, you're right. It's not even like they are in bed or anything, and you can like figure it out. It sounds like they just go swimming.

Bridget 31:23

They just wake up and the headboard's wrecked and there's feathers flying around the room and she's covered in bruises.

Eryn 31:28

Him biting the pillow and there's feathers everywhere. I would that would be an instant ick. I would be filing for divorce. Annulman. Annulman.

Bridget 31:37

You know what I thought was so funny? Like when the cleaning people came to cleaning, she wanted to stay. I would be out, out leave. I would never show my face.

Laura 31:47

I remember, yeah, I remember being so, so let down by the fade to black of Bella going into the water. And another thing I remember, I hate when my feet touch the bottom of the ocean. And I remember the description of like the water was warm, like I feel like a bath. Yeah. Oh, even that pissy water. And I remember like the description of her feet touching the sand, and I was still in my head, like then it was like next day, moving on, and I was just appalled.

Bridget 32:20

The one thing that always I think of like multiple times a week, still. A week? Yeah. Every time I cook chicken. Because she eats it, then she checks to see if it's pink, and then she vomits or whatever happens. But every time I cook chicken, I'm like, is it pink? I've got to check.

Eryn 32:39

That was like the most realistic thing she's ever done. Like checking the chicken five times and still deciding it's probably not cooked enough.

Bridget 32:47

Also, you know what I thought was really funny about her cooking, like she was like, I was hungry, so I thought I'd make a simple meal. Fried chicken. Fried chicken? I've never made fried chicken because it just seems like too much effort.

Eryn 32:58

When that happened, I was like, what the fuck? Yeah. How is that your simple go-to meal?

Bridget 33:04

She's a suburban mum, honestly. She's a soccer mum.

Eryn 33:07

When Edward had bought all the food, he was like, Oh, get some chip and drumsticks just in case Della wants some fried chicken in the middle of the night. Eat some eggs for it. Oh, she's having enough eggs anyway.

Laura 33:18

So many eggs. Where are they getting all these eggs from? How many eggs did they pack? Maybe this is like um the Easter egg for Emmett's eggs that he has in Twilight. Like, what is the egg? Egg. Help me understand egg. Why does she eat so many eggs? I don't understand babies. You can't even eat eggs if you're pregnant. It's not even a Can you not eat eggs if you're pregnant? You're not supposed to eat raw eggs past a certain point, right? I think. I mean, she's not eating raw eggs. I was thinking it was like, oh, I want to eat raw food because my baby's a vampire.

Bridget 33:54

But like I think it would have made more sense to have like for her to develop like a hankering for medium rare steak.

Eryn 34:01

Yeah, give me some mints with blood blood in it, yes. Yeah, I don't know. That would make sense. The egg thing is strange. Her farts would be so gross. I don't think that it wouldn't watch that.

Bridget 34:15

He wakes her up and he's like, Bella, I think you need a human minute.

Laura 35:18

It's not that we don't talk about enough. It's pretty bleak, it's pretty grim. The first time they have sex, Bella wakes up, covered in bruises, property destroyed, Edward is devastated. I don't know if this is a respectful segue, but I've committed to it. It's fucked up that that happens to her, that she's covered in bruises, and it's just the inevitable outcome of that interaction. Like it's just set up as like, oh well, like shit happens when you're dating a vampire.

Bridget 36:08

But I think the thing that is the most problematic about it is like Edward is rightfully devastated by it. Like he has seen what he's done, he recognises that it's bad. The only thing she can think of is, oh, I wasn't good for him. She's that's the only thing she's concerned about. And yeah.

Eryn 36:29

It's just such a damaging message. I also think it's fucked up. In not showing the sex scene, she's kind of done a disservice to both of them. So Edward didn't want to have sex with her while she was a human, but they made the compromise, quote unquote, to do it after getting married. If you had shown the sex scene, you could have seen him like checking in with her, being like, Am I being too rough with you or whatever? And her maybe lying because she doesn't want to stop, and then him later dealing with it and being like, Why didn't you say anything? Like, we talked about this. Or and like having that mature conversation, but they don't do that either.

Laura 37:07

Yeah, or it could have been something possibly healthier as well of him, like them having sex, him checking in with her, and her not being hurt, but it's just that he is made of stone, as we are led to believe, and you know, like it could have still been a positive thing, and he still could have felt bad about it. But yeah, that's such a great point. Like, it is absolutely a disservice, like we missed a whole conversation that you should absolutely be having with your partner.

Eryn 37:35

When you factor in the audience for this book as well, this is probably one of the few books where doing the sex ed thing would actually work out in a really good way.

Bridget 37:45

Yes, the icebreaker consent conversation.

Eryn 37:47

Yeah, like this. They've not done a great job of teaching their audience any lessons thus far, but this would have been a really good opportunity to have, I don't know, Edward talk about how he has to hold himself back so he doesn't hurt her or whatever, like talking about what is and isn't okay, what they might be doing, like she has no idea what she's signing up for here, both as a human and as the lover of a vampire. I said this in the eclipse episode. I don't believe that Edward's a virgin. I cannot believe it. So he has to know more about this than her. So once again, the power is with him and the ball is in his court.

Bridget 38:24

We also had a long chat with Carlisle about what to expect.

Eryn 38:26

Yes! Weird as well. Carlisle should have been there. Like, did Carlisle give Edward pointers? What did he tell him to do? Was he the one that told him to buy so many eggs? Ladies love eggs.

Bridget 38:42

This is a bit crass, but I mean, what I love about is is crass. So the thing, like you say there's no way he's a virgin. I think, are we meant to believe that the sperm that impregnated Bella is left over from 1917? Oh my god. Because I think that's a sperm. I think that I think that and I didn't do research to um verify this, but I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere in the past that Stephanie Meyer said that is how it happened. Yeah, it is left over from when he was uh alive. So are we to assume that he has never he's never jerked off?

Eryn 39:23

Yeah there's no way, there's no way I no, no, it's in 109, he's 109.

Bridget 39:32

109 years, that's and that's what he says in the this book. He's got he's got two medical degrees, he's got all the stuff.

Laura 39:40

And another interesting point on that is that I read somewhere that when you turn into a vampire, all of the fluid or like whatever liquid in your body turns into venom. So it's not really clear how it happens in the first place. You're telling me it will change the colour of your skin and make you like your perfect self, not disabled, not anything but white, not anything but freckle to be seen. No freckles, no tattoos, but hands off the sperm.

Eryn 40:12

But you know what's an it's just crazy and it's gross, and like the whole talk about the pregnancy just really grosses me out.

Bridget 40:21

Reading about the pregnancy is a is a horrific experience. Like pregnancies in in real life are bad enough. Yes, and birth stories are bad enough in real life, but reading about it in this book and how Resume was born. Uh she's called Resume. Yeah.

Laura 40:37

That is her name.

Bridget 40:38

That's her yeah, it's the name, that's her colloquial incident name. Is it really? Yeah, yeah. It's Resume, um, resentment, renaissance, anything that starts with an R, basically.

Eryn 40:49

So I learned so much in these things.

Bridget 40:52

So the way that she is described to be the birth of her is disgusting. And I think the only thing that has traumatized me more is watching the movie.

Eryn 41:01

The only thing I'm not sure of, and it might just be because I was listening to it, but does Edward like bite the baby out of her?

Bridget 41:08

Yes.

Eryn 41:08

They have to stop it.

Bridget 41:10

Because the womb is vampire skin. The only thing that can break vampire skin is vampire teeth.

Eryn 41:17

The revulsion I feel. That's so gross. It gets worse. When I was hearing them describe how they get the baby out of her, and I heard, like, oh, and Edward's teeth, and I was like, Where are his teeth? What are his teeth doing? I'm so concerned. Is how did Carlisle come up with this as an approach? He was just guessing though.

Laura 41:42

Like, I think that's the thing, like the they had no answers, like they didn't even know what the baby wanted until Jacob was being a little bitch in his head, and they were like, Oh, blood, duh.

Eryn 41:54

Yeah, like again, another example of someone who for the whole series has been made out to be super stupid, and then suddenly they have one thought or one statement, and the Cullins are all collectively like, oh my god, I've never thought of that.

Laura 42:07

The toll that this pregnancy takes on her body and the way that everybody stands by to let this happen to her, they're like, Oh, it's up to Bella what she chooses, but what she chooses is so heavily influenced by Stephanie Meyer. That influence is baby at all costs, no matter what it takes, no matter if that baby breaks your spine, no matter if that baby is breaking your ribs, no matter what, like that baby must be born.

Eryn 42:37

Look, I think it's an important conversation to have because it's obviously influenced by what Stephanie herself believes, but also what Bella does is influenced by what the rest of the Cullins want as well. Like, she immediately calls Rosalie because she knows Rosalie will be on her side. And while I enjoy that partnership as like a new dynamic, it's Bella's body, Bella's choice. If she wants to do that, she can do that. And this is something we discussed a bit as well during the um before the coffee gets cold episode as well, because we grappled with it there as well. The excuse ultimately here is that Bella can have the baby because that's what Bella wants, but also because they know she's not gonna die, because they're just gonna turn it into a vampire anyway. This is another example of where the stakes aren't actually that high because they know that they're gonna fix it anyway. It would be different, I think, if if it was really the baby or Bella's existence, regardless of whether she was a human or a vampire. If they thought she would no longer exist after having the baby, it would be a much different scene.

Laura 43:38

And I do enjoy the way that for once they are really like they do seem to be tuned in to paying attention to what Bella wants. It's just a shame that it has to happen at such a bleak point in time.

Eryn 43:54

I think this was the first book I ever read that had a pregnancy plot line in it. I I think this is the reason why anytime someone wakes up after hooking up with someone and starts feeling sick, I'm like, oh, here we go. Fuck this. I don't want to read this anymore. I think it's breaking Dawn's fault.

Laura 44:12

It traumatized you.

Eryn 44:13

I think so. And like in a huge way, it is bad from start to finish.

Laura 44:19

I think another thing worth noting as well is that up until this point, Bella has expressed absolutely no interest in having a child. Edward and Bella have not spoken about having a child, apart from a very, very brief conversation in Twilight where Bella says, Would that ever be possible for us? And Edward says, No. Um I'm immortal. But my sperm's not. But I mean it's just so predictable. At the start of this book, we start getting a lot of information about the Denali clan and some misunderstandings there with their mum and some bad nonsense she was up to, and then like oh, there's I can't even remember, but there's some pretty heavy-handed messaging in the first part of the book before they go on their honeymoon. That children and Aurora they're on the horizon.

Bridget 45:11

It's funny, like it's meant to be foreshadowing, but the sun is directly overhead. There's no shadow. Yeah. She's pregnant. I think is the worst she has ever been.

Laura 45:21

I think she has this really pious kind of like holier than thou, like, huh, everything will work out. Just because I just have a feeling like it's smug. I I don't know. I have like a really uncomfortable feeling for still hating Bella after all this time. And I think like my track record of not really liking the female protagonists in the books that we read makes me feel really terrible. But I genuinely believe the way that she is written, she is not a good person, she would not be fun to be around, she would not be a friend.

Eryn 45:54

It's a bad character, and I agree because I also don't have a lot of like favourite female characters, and it makes me think that maybe I'm like judging them harsher than I'm judging male characters. But I think it's also indicative of just like a poor selection of good female characters. There just aren't many because people don't write them well.

Bridget 46:13

I think the part that in this bit is just so condescending is when she's like, Jake, you'll find someone, you'll imprint on someone. She won't deserve you. It's sickening.

Eryn 46:24

It is sickening. And it's like peak martyrdom too. It's like, if the only thing I can do is have this baby, then I'll have this baby and it'll be the best thing I've ever done, and all the colours will be happy, even if I'm dead. Babe, it's not that deep. No one dies in this fucking story at any point, even though they should. So don't worry about it.

Bridget 46:45

Should we move on to imprinting? Yes, there's a lot to say. So we have already covered this in Eclipse. So if you haven't listened or you've forgotten our in-depth discussion of imprinting, that you can go on back, but this is when it really like culminates, and we we finally see the reason why we had to spend all that time hearing about imprinting a new moon and eclipse and and Claire the the two-year-old. Oh, it's so weird. The scene at the beach is so weird. The groundwork has been laid, it's ready for Jacob to take center stage.

Laura 47:16

I think that it could be good to very briefly mention the scene at the beach because it is disgusting. And I think it's worth noting that this is told from Jacob's point of view, and one of the things he notes about Quill playing with the two-year-old child that he's imprinted on is though I did think it sucked that he had a good 14 years to wait until Claire was his age. Although he's repeatedly told us that there's nothing sexual, like you'll be whatever they want you to be, there is always this underlying theme of waiting for them.

Eryn 47:47

What's weird about that as well is that it's not even waiting until she's ready or waiting until their connection blossoms into something. It's literally waiting until she's 16.

Laura 47:57

And with that in mind, Jacob imprints on not a two-year-old, not a one-year-old, but a fresh out the womb infant, a newborn baby.

Bridget 48:08

I like it as a plot point because it does explain the connection. I mean it doesn't, but in the world in this world, it explains the connection between Bella and Jacob, and it would be a relief for Bella to think, oh wow, I'm not actually unfaithful to Edward. This is the reason why. Because Jacob does say to her, Do we think this is a relief? Do we really think? I mean, personally, no. Okay. But to Bella, sure. And I think that's what we were meant to feel. Oh, right, yes. Um, and so when Bella finds out, she she flips out, understandably, and then Jacob says to her, Do you remember how much you wanted me around three days ago? How hard it was to be apart from each other? That's gone for you now, isn't it? That was her from the very beginning. We had to be together. Even then. Well, she thinks I remembered, and then I understood. A tiny part of me was relieved to have the madness explained.

Eryn 49:02

But this is probably the one thing that maybe Stephanie Meyer has done pretty well. Because it's true that women like have all their eggs from like birth, right? So that would explain why they've been connected their whole lives and it's been stronger once he reached maturity and became his werewolfy self or whatever, because that egg that was always going to become Renez May was always part of Bella. Like that is an interesting way to do it. Yeah, I hate it as a plot point, but at the same time, I don't.

Laura 49:34

Oh yeah, my first crush was on an embryo. Oh god.

Bridget 49:39

It's my god, maybe that's why his best friend is named Embry. Oh my god.

Laura 49:45

We also are getting a lot of eggs in this. True.

Eryn 49:48

Sorry, a lot of eggs. It is so strange that she is not more outraged that he imprinted on a baby. Because even though he was like, no, it's not that bad, she was still outraged when he told her the story originally, and I can't imagine she has warmed up to the idea since then. But this is also just Stephanie Meyer being like, um, I know I'm really made you guys like Jacob, and you're all really sad that he's not getting with Bella. So look, he's getting with Bella 2.0, and she's gonna be hotter than her anyway, and she's human, so everyone wins, everyone's happy. Well, I actually have a quote from Stephanie about this.

Bridget 50:25

Ooh, hell yeah. In New Moon, she was really trying her best to make her thinly veiled link between the book and Romeo and Juliet. Twilight was a loose adaptation of Pride and Prejudice. I think that's what she was attempting to do. Um, Eclipse was Weathering Heights, was that was the classic book that she uh chose to butcher. And then for Breaking Dawn, she's actually referenced to Shakespeare's stories. We're talking about at the moment the love triangle. So she said that she used a Midsummer Night's Dream as inspiration for this part of the story. And she says, When I decided to use A Midsummer Night's Dream, it was because I knew that the love triangle that was so painful for everyone involved was going to be flipped around so that everyone was happy. It's first mentioned in the epigraph to the second book. The line in the epigraph suggests that love and reason don't go together, and that's basically what Bella tries to explain to Jacob in the scene where she tells him that she's convinced things will work out for her and her baby. And she says, and would explain it to me once, like it's some magic, it's like Midsummer Night's Dream, and then Jacob says, You've lost your mind. She says when he imprints, he'll understand the magic of love, and so that's her like take on a Midsummer Night's Dream. The fact that everyone ends up with people, well, Jacob ends up with someone he didn't originally think he was gonna end up with, but you know, he's happy about it.

Eryn 51:48

Has she read a Midsummer Night's Dream?

Bridget 51:51

Like what I'll get to the other one a bit later. Okay. There was one part of that conversation between Jacob and Bella that I really liked, and it was when Jacob was just imploring Bella to think rationally about the situation, and he says to her, What was the point of me loving you? What was the point of you loving him? When you die, it was all for nothing. And I think that is exactly how I feel about this book and also like the pregnancy plot line in Akatar. What was the point of all the hardship and the struggle and the heartache to get to this point where you could be happy for the rest of your life with the person that you love? And you're just gonna throw it all away for this.

Laura 52:31

I really like that line too. I thought it was Jacob's defining moment, like the best thing he's ever done.

Eryn 52:37

My favourite thing Jacob has ever done is be so sad that he just runs around as a dog and like doesn't want to not be a dog. Like he's just roaming the woods hiding from his feelings, being a dog.

Laura 52:51

Like it is so desperate as well that day he like flips out and borrows Edward's car and goes into town and is like just staring intensely at various women in the town trying to be like imprint, please. I completely forgot about that, and I really hated it. It was so dumb. It was it was sad, it was sad on multiple levels. And then there was that one who was like, I want to imprint so bad she likes cars, like Steven Martin.

Eryn 53:16

That one's funny because it's like she's not like other girls. She likes cars. But it's also funny because you start the whole book with that nonsense about a how does she have this Mercedes? It's not even out in Europe yet. And like Bella doesn't know cars, but Jacob's still like, oh my god, Brawl or I really want to imprint on you.

Laura 53:34

I will say that the imprinting storyline was disappointing to me on so many levels. But I also found it disappointing because when we spend time in Jacob's point of view, he's starting to get to know Leah a little bit. Um, there's even a line that's like, I'd never really thought twice about her before. And then there is this like really gross line as well where they're talking about how they're naked when they phase, and then he's like, we are see everything. I'd seen Leah before, and she was like worth looking at, but not worth thinking about uh like later on. But it is pretty cheap to have all the couples happily paired up in a way that just like resolves the story. But I really would have liked or preferred if Leah and Jacob had maybe had some sort of relationship because it really felt like it was building to that. And then we just suffer through this whole imprinting nonsense. That's so repulsive. Like it's gotta be a key reason why so many people don't like this book.

Bridget 54:30

Maybe once he'd realised that Leah isn't actually that bad and they'd found some common ground, then you know it would have happened for them. It would have I think just would have made so much more sense.

Eryn 54:40

I would have liked to see, because we talked a bit in the last episode about freedom of choice and whether you could choose not to do anything about your mating bond or whatever the fuck it is. Wouldn't it be nice if Jacob realised he had imprinted on Renezme and decided to take that brotherly role with her and just decide he was gonna be like her mentor and protector or whatever, and then chose to continue life with Laura or Leah, but life with Leah and just like see where that goes. Maybe you can have more than one imprinting. Is that a thing? Like, who knows? Like that would be interesting. It would be cool for them to grow into a mating bond. Like, if your mate dies, what happens?

Laura 55:25

Like, who that's so true. And like, if Stephanie Meyer is out here kind of picking and choosing Quillute legends as they suit her, I think if we're referencing like the story she tells us in Eclipse, it was kind of like the chief of that tribe making his own rules and kind of pushing boundaries, like going into like a spirit world, going into a wolf's body, and these kinds of things, like pushing boundaries for a better outcome for his people. And I don't think that she should continue to meddle with these stories, but while she's at it, like why not make it that Jacob, as the alpha, can change change this law? Like, like you said, why does he have to stick to imprinting if he's already broken some rules? Why not break some that make the story actually better?

Eryn 56:15

And like they become like dual alphas of the pack, right? Like that's brand new. Another conflict just yeah, that fizzles into nothing. So you're telling me they've basically reinvented pack dynamics.

Bridget 56:28

I thought they just accepted that there would be two packs.

Eryn 56:31

No, I'm pretty sure they they reconnected. Sam Because Sam said that once Jacob imprinted on Rene, they had to protect the Cullens now, because you have to protect the mate of one of the pack members. So the packs recombined and they became co-captains of the Cheer Squad.

Laura 56:50

I think they stayed separate and Quill and Ambry joined, but they would discovered that two Alphas could have a conversation and they just like respectfully agreed to disagree. And there was that thing, yeah, you you have to respect the mating bonds, alpha to alpha. But even that plot point, it's so stupid. It says, I considered another interesting phenomenon. Though the silence between the separate packs continued, Jacob and Sam had discovered that alphas could speak to each other while in their wolf form. It wasn't the same as before. They couldn't hear every thought the way they had prior to the split. It was more like speaking aloud, Seth had said. Sam could only hear the thoughts Jacob wanted to share, and vice versa. They found that they could communicate over distance too, now that they were talking to each other again. They hadn't found out all this until Jacob had gone alone, over Seth and Leah's objections, to explain to Sam about Renezme, and it was the only time he'd left Renezme since first laying eyes on her. Once Sam had understood how absolutely everything had changed, he'd come back with Jacob to talk to Carlyle, they'd spoken in human form, Edward had refused to leave my side to translate, and the treaty had been renewed. The friendly feeling of the relationship, however, might never be the same. One big worry down. The end.

Eryn 58:05

It's just like it's just such an easy resolution for what could have been a really cool and complex plot point.

Laura 58:12

Once again, like constant like sliding doors off moments for Stephanie and like good writing.

Eryn 58:19

I hated the throwaway line at the end of the book that Charlie gets with Harry Clearwater's widow that is incredibly lazy writing. Like that has come out of nowhere. She's been a widow for two seconds. And like that's so cute. They just, it's just like a okay, Jacob's got a partner, Bella's got a partner, Renee's got a partner. Oh fuck, Charlie's gotta have a partner. Can't be Carlisle. Where's the next closest female? Where's Billy? Yeah, where's Billy? That would be cute. Venus Carlisle free. It was just lazy. And I fully forgot that happened as well. I rolled my eyes so hard this morning when I listened to that bit.

Laura 59:02

I think the only other thing I want to say in relation to Jacob imprinting is what a big day Bella has that day. Because in the same day that she awakens as a vampire, like we said earlier, she meets her newborn baby, um, discovers that Jacob is imprinted on Rene. It's her birthday. Uh, and her and Edward go and have sex, which is really funny because they get heavily, heavily distracted, and it's just so insane that you've woken up as a vampire, discovered you have a newborn baby, which was the whole like reason you were going through this ordeal almost to begin with. Like it was her sole focus for the past few weeks. And then suddenly, once sex is on the table again, she's like, Woohoo!

Eryn 59:50

Forget the photo. Fuck that guy. It's also funny that she like doesn't even know where it is. She just trusts that someone's looking after it. And then like they're fucking, and she there's like this disgusting line that's like, oh, she's not even like satisfied. And Edward tells her, like, it'll take years to be satiated. Gross.

Bridget 1:00:13

Sydney tells her about how like the length of time that everyone else took to stand, you know, until they could stand to be in the same room as them, like Rosalie and Emma. It's like 10 years, I think.

Eryn 1:00:24

Oh god. It's giving the same vibes as when like Azriel walked into the room after Nestor and Cassian got it on in the kitchen, like disgusting.

Laura 1:00:35

After all that, there is a really funny line as well where it says, It was only a little while later that Edward reminded me of my priorities. It took him just one word. Renezme. I sighed. She would be awake soon. She's like, uh, babies, am I right? She hasn't even.

Eryn 1:00:54

It's been one day, Bella. It's been less than a day.

Laura 1:00:57

It's been a couple of hours.

Eryn 1:00:59

Okay, well, shall we turn our attention to what we're told is supposed to be the main plot point of this story? It is the main tension, it's the Vulturi coming back because they've found out about the little demon spawn that is Renezme. And once again, the Vulturi rock up, nothing fucking happens, nobody fights, nobody dies, and it's all a big waste of time. Once again, like there is nothing. It's actually so boring. It's so boring. It sucks so bad.

Bridget 1:01:33

There is no return on investment. I have a quote from Stephanie Meyer about this exact point. And I when I read it before, I thought it was so funny because we have all been saying, like, nothing happens. Stakes are so high always, but they're not because nothing ever happens, nothing ever changes. And so this is the uh the next literary reference that she's thrown in. Um, side note how funny was it when she was reading Renezme Tennyson? What? As a bedtime story, she reads Renezme poetry and she reads Are you for real? I love it so much. Anyway, that's just another little side note. But Stephanie also references The Merchant of Venice, and Alice writes a clue to her in her copy, her personal copy, but she goes into detail about why she chose this book and how it influenced her story creation. And so, if you're unaware, I've got a bit of a summary for uh The Merchant of Venice. So it's about it's a comedy written by William Shakespeare about two merchants, Antonio and Bisanio, and they're in a crooked business deal that sparks uh they have a debt to a moneylender. Antonio promises to pay it off with a pound of his own flesh in case he can't get the money, and then he can't get the cash and he's worried about, you know, having to give a pound of his flesh. But then a woman, Portia, saves the day. She's an heiress who has fallen in love with Bisanio. She disguises herself as a lawyer to plead for Antonio's defense before Shylock in court. Portia not only gets Shylock to forfeit everything he owns but beg through his life, and he leaves defeated and then happy ever after. In an interview with Stephanie Meyer, she talks about this and she says, I'm not the kind of person who writes a Hamlet ending. If the fight had happened, it would have ended with 90% of the combatants, Cullen and Volturia like destroyed. Because I would never finish Bella's story on such a downer, everyone dies. I knew that the real battle would be mental. It was a game of manoeuvring. Alice tore a page from the Merchant of Venice because the end of Breaking Dawn was going to be somewhat similar. Bloodshed appears inevitable, doom approaches, and then the power is reversed, and the game is won by some clever verbal strategies. No blood is shed, and the romantic pairings all have a happily ever after.

Eryn 1:03:43

Are you joking? Name literally name one clever mental strategy that happened here.

Laura 1:03:50

Let's all calm down, guys. Jason, this isn't you.

Eryn 1:03:55

I cannot think of a single thing where I was like, oh, that's actually pretty smart. Like they've actually really they fucked them up doing it.

Bridget 1:04:03

It was really just Edward reading their minds and you know giving a counter-argument.

Eryn 1:04:08

It was literally like a day in court. That was it. They were like, okay, fellas, you come, you're on our side. It was like grade 10 debating. That's what I was watching. There is nothing there that suggests anyone outsmarted anyone. It's like they all thought it was too hard in the end and just agreed to disagree. Like, all right, good job. That was pretty much it. Someone should have died. I don't care that it's unhappy. You can't tell me that they, like Victoria, have been the big bads for several books now, with nothing to show for it. At this point, we're not even scared of them anymore. They hold no weight. And when you compare that to New Moon and the End when they slaughter all those humans, they were scary then. They're not scary now, they don't mean anything anymore.

Laura 1:04:53

And I think it was such a poor timeline of like when they came and when all the events of the story happened as well. Because by the time they rock up, it's the very, very end of the book. Bella and Edward already have exactly what they want. Charlie's seen Rene, he knows about the werewolves, he's kind of cool with it all.

Eryn 1:05:13

Oh, King Charlie just being like, don't tell me anything else.

Bridget 1:05:17

Oh man. I mean he lives his life on a need-to-know basis. Yeah.

Eryn 1:05:20

And I respect that. Same. Like he's like, I don't care about all that. I don't want to know about that.

Laura 1:05:26

But there's like, you know, there's barely any pages left of the book. Of course, nothing's gonna happen. Like, they've already got their resolution. We've read three of these books so far, and we know who you are, Stephanie. We know what you're gonna do. And you're not about to just disappoint us. There is that really weird throwaway line about the werewolves actually being shapeshifters. And I wonder if that was her attempt to kind of correct her misstep of the legend.

Eryn 1:05:56

Yeah, I thought that was really weird and really lazy, like. Why are we saying that, except for that? And if that is the reason, I think you could actually do a much better job than just be like, hee hee, just kidding, they're not werewolves, they're shapeshifters.

Bridget 1:06:09

I think we're giving her too much credit, as if she just thought it would be a cool plot point, I think.

Laura 1:06:14

All it does is discredit what you've spent two books establishing. What difference does it make? And also, like, why have you worked so hard to have this sort of like alpha betum imprinting mates for life pack mentality? Oh, but you're not wolves.

Bridget 1:06:28

What I was thinking is, I think she was trying to set it up for spin-offs because it was the other Volturi guy who has a beef with werewolves. I think she was trying to just see if she could make a spin-off about his I don't know, battle with the werewolves.

Eryn 1:06:44

There were a few points in this book where I thought this feels like a lot of plot dropping for not a lot of payoff in this book. I did wonder if she was trying to set up some spin-offs in this. Even with Seth and stuff, I thought, you've now got this little baby wolf who's real close with the vampires. Like, what's that gonna look like? Or like that little baby vampire with the siblings that were all half vampires or whatever. That seemed like another like setup for other vampires elsewhere. Thank God it wasn't. Because I I for one would not be reading.

Bridget 1:07:18

I just think like I'm just struggling to find anything to say about it because it's such a nothing end to the whole series.

Eryn 1:07:25

That's exactly right. It's actually a really disappointing end to such a long series and a really big time investment.

Bridget 1:07:32

And such a cultural shift as well. Like, even if you hate Twilight, you can't deny the impact that it had on society as a whole. Like the amount of jokes that were at the time uh just centered around it, the just the amount of money it would have made and the careers it launched as well. It was an incredible phenomenon, and it just ends in this such lackluster and disappointing way.

Laura 1:07:55

Something else we haven't talked about in line with that is when Bella, after four books of lead up, finally is turned into a vampire, and her number one hesitation has been, will I still be me? Will I be bloodthirsty? Will I be killing innocent people? And she wakes up and she's like, Slay, I manifested that, like it's actually not an issue for me. And the best that they can do is at explaining it is that she just had a little bit of like she managed her own expectations. It's easy for her because she had like a few months to prepare. I do not buy that like centuries of newborn vampires are are like that she's the exception to that.

Eryn 1:08:37

Yeah, that like all the other vampires were too lazy and just they didn't put in the work. You've got to put in the work to not kill innocent humans. No one knows how to work these days. Exactly. I agree. I thought that was nonsense also. It would have been really sick to see her try and kill Charlie or something and have to be talked down from that. That would have been really cool.

Laura 1:08:59

But been fully sick.

Eryn 1:09:01

Yeah, but no, Bella couldn't be interesting for one second of her life and had to just be great at everything, even the mental like blocking. I liked it in the sense that at least it made sense of why they couldn't read her mind or whatever. But it's just too easy of a resolution. Like now no one can be attacked by anyone, like boring, boring, wank wank. I don't care anymore.

Laura 1:09:24

And also it didn't really make sense because all that we get after all this time is like, oh, you're a shield, that's so rare. And it's like, but what? Like, what does that mean and why? Like how?

Eryn 1:09:39

Rare compared to what? Are there other shields? How do we know that she's a shield? What does this mean?

Laura 1:09:44

Why was that happening when she was a human as well? Like, it just I don't know. I just I know attempts were made to explain it. It barely makes sense to me.

Bridget 1:09:52

You know what's funny about Bella and her, you know, mental block in mid reading Midnight Sun? Charlie has the beginnings of a mental block. Edward finds it really hard to read Charlie's mind. Well, that's what he originally thought. He originally thought that he was just a slow thinker. But when he came to spend a bit more time with him, he realized that it was just like fuzzy around the edges. And so I think Bella gets a lot of that mental fortitude and whatever from Charlie. And I think that's an afterthought.

Laura 1:10:22

I think it is an afterthought, and it's one of those many things that Stephanie has peppered throughout the series where she's like, oh, I'll explain it later, because actually I only just thought of it now.

Eryn 1:10:31

A wink. I don't think she means this, but wouldn't it be cool if, like, somewhere down Bella's lineage there is some vampire heritage in there somewhere, and that's why she's like that. Wouldn't it be cool if you could track her bloodline the way that you can track the black's bloodline and see that she's got some kind of supernatural element in there that explains why she's like that?

Laura 1:10:54

Yeah, and why all of this happens to her, because like it is something that they joke about and talk about. Like, trust you to end up in the middle of a werewolf vampire dispute in like the smallest town ever where nothing ever happens. It would be great if we had some sort of explanation as to, apart from like, that's so random.

Eryn 1:11:13

It's probably something as simple as someone on Charlie's side of the family is also from the Quillut tribe and it's just been passed down through generations like That makes so much sense. And then it's just in her bloodline that she is attached to that tribe somehow, but not in a way that would put her in the werewolf packs, but in a way that would still make her invisible to them.

Laura 1:11:36

And that would also make a lot of sense as to why Jacob imprints on Renezme, because like if they're making optimal birth arrangements or whatever, if that bloodline already sort of somewhat exists in Bella, then that checks out.

Eryn 1:11:51

Call us if you need help writing your next book, Stephanie. Alrighty, shall we for the final time talk about the playlist that exists for this book?

Bridget 1:12:01

Let's go. So it's split into book one, book two, and book three. So book one, starting off strong, Billy Idol, White Wedding.

Eryn 1:12:11

Yeah, okay.

Bridget 1:12:12

Then we have Beach Boys, wouldn't it be nice? Oh god. Muse, can't take my eyes off of you. Congratulations.

Eryn 1:12:18

A Frankie Valley cover.

Bridget 1:12:20

I'm not sure.

Eryn 1:12:21

Curious to hear Muse cover that song, if that's what that is.

Bridget 1:12:24

Blue October, congratulations. And then this really speaks to me. Number five is Take Me Away by the Plain White Tees. I went through a heavy plain white tease phase, and I love that song. So I mean I get it. It's a Jacob banger, I think. Okay. Um, and then we have another Coldplay song, No More Keeping My Feet on the Ground. And then book two, we start with Nine Inch Nails. Ooh. Down in it.

Eryn 1:12:47

Okay, interesting.

Bridget 1:12:48

We have some Aerosmith, we have Incubus, we have Interpol, Corn.

Eryn 1:12:53

Um These are not giving Jacob vibes. Incubus, maybe.

Bridget 1:12:59

My chemical romance, The Sharpest Lives. Banger. What was the Aerosmith song? Uh, What It Takes. Okay. Then we have Motion City soundtrack, TV on the radio, REM, Jimmy Necko. And then book three, Smashing Pumpkins to start us off. Today. Oh, today's a great song. And then number two, right said Fred, I'm too sexy. What the fuck?

Eryn 1:13:22

So obviously that's when they're having sex. But like, I can only assume that this is like really on the nose again because the song Today by Smashing Pumpkins literally starts. Today is the greatest day I've ever known.

Bridget 1:13:36

She doesn't know these songs, I'm convinced. She just reads the title or reads the lyrics. I'm sure of it. Okay, number three on the playlist for book three: The Temper Trap, Sweet Disposition. Just really in the opposite direction of I'm Too Sexy. Yeah. And then we have Lincoln Park. Then we have Three Doors Down, Duck and Run. This is such an odd playlist. Yeah, it gets weirder. Number six. This is an inclusion that really would um speak to Laura and Bridget of the time that we would have been reading it. Simon and Garf uncle, Hazy Shade of Winter. And then we have Death Card for Cutie, I Will Follow You Into the Dark, which is a lovely song. That's a good song. And then we have three muse songs in a row.

Laura 1:14:14

God, she flogs the muse, doesn't she?

Bridget 1:14:17

Intro, take a bow. Hopefully that's a Rihanna colour.

Eryn 1:14:21

I would love to hear that.

Bridget 1:14:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we have Assassin. Okay, go again. Invincible. Travis, save an elbow one day like this.

Laura 1:14:32

Oh, Stephanie. You bring us such joy and confusion. She's a crazy girl.

Eryn 1:14:37

You're so right when you said that none of them compare quite to the Twilight New Moon ones. Those were the best ones. Whichever one that had like, I'm not okay, I promise, and the Lincoln Park and the Foo Fighters, like, sounds like I'm listening to my own playlist from the time. So I think with that that we are done with the Twilight Mega Mix Extravaganza, I think this has been a momentous task and undertaking. And I can't believe we've completed it. It seemed so big so long ago. And it was just as hard as I thought it would be. So I think it'd be good to reflect a little bit on diving back into these worlds as a whole and like how we feel post-finishing this momentous task. What are the vibes? How do we feel? I for one feel exhausted.

Bridget 1:15:22

I also feel so exhausted. I feel alright. I feel fine. I want to keep reading The Night Sun. You amazed me at it.

Laura 1:15:30

Estamina that Erin and I have never been able to tap into, though.

Eryn 1:15:34

I think, especially after reading them for like a month and a half now and talking about them for two days straight, I'm done. I'm at my limit of the Twilight Mega Mix, and I think it is timely that it's done.

Laura 1:15:51

It is the right time to finish this. I feel exhausted. I feel like I had a lot of fun doing it though. Definitely. And I really enjoyed revisiting them. It was really like nostalgic. And even though I don't think very positively about these books, I still so much enjoyed the reading experience, and I really was just so transported back to like my grandma's middle bedroom, those school holidays, thinking about the boys I had a crush on at school. Like a few of the days I was reading, it was like cloudy, and I had a blanket and I had a cup of tea, and I had my book, and it was just such a cozy time. As much as I said that I hated these books, and I honestly don't think I'll ever reread them again after this date. I agree. I had a good time.

Eryn 1:16:38

Bridget, we know you're already gonna reread them.

Bridget 1:16:40

Yeah, I was thinking before, like, should I read them every year? So I want to know the rankings of the books from one to four, favorite to least favorite, Erin.

Eryn 1:16:51

New moon, eclipse, twilight, breaking dawn. Laura.

Laura 1:16:56

I think it actually goes Twilight, New Moon, Eclipse, Breaking Dawn.

Bridget 1:17:01

Oh, so release order, chronological order. Interesting. For me, it's New Moon, Twilight, Eclipse, Breaking Dawn. Definitely. And I Twilight isn't too far behind New Moon, honestly. Like they're both pretty up there in my mind for quality. Quality. Enjoyment. I'll change it to enjoyment.

Eryn 1:17:18

Quality in faded commas.

Laura 1:17:21

Why why do you put your number ones at number one?

Eryn 1:17:24

I had a really fun time reading New Moon this time. I really liked seeing how Bella got out of the depression she was in. And I think probably that's the only time that the stakes were actually high. And the Vulturi reveal at the end was just super cool.

Laura 1:17:43

Persuasive argument.

Bridget 1:17:44

New Moon is just my kind of vibe. I just really love it.

Laura 1:17:47

You love when she's suffering. Yeah, I do. I think it's all about nostalgia for me with Twilight. It's so cozy. I've said it before and I'll say it again, but I just loved the domesticity of it. Ooh, yeah. And I love all the talk about the misty rain and her drying her hair in the car and her putting on dry clothes after getting damp, going outside. I just feel like so snug when I read it.

Eryn 1:18:12

I like the talk about like putting lasagna on a plate and putting the plate in the microwave. I don't know why. I just I really like that.

Laura 1:18:20

Me too. Yeah.

Eryn 1:18:21

But I hate lasagna. Oh. Let's do our favourite character in Breaking Dawn. This one is easy for me, so I'm gonna go first because it's Seth Clearwater.

Laura 1:18:32

Oh, it's the same for me. He's such a little sweetie pie. Yeah. I love Seth so much.

Eryn 1:18:37

It matters! He's the cutest. Anyway, oh this is so fun. I'm so glad that we did this. So let's wrap up Breaking Dawn with the ultimate rating that matters the most in all the lands. Lit or shit, Bridget.

Bridget 1:18:50

My rating for Breaking Dawn is lit, but honestly, it does pain me a little bit to say that. So I'm gonna stop talking and move on. Someone else, please.

Eryn 1:18:58

Little shit, Laura. Um, my rating for Breaking Dawn is shit. Mine is also shit. It is a shit book. How about this series is a whole Twilight Saga, little shit. Lit. It's lit. I think it is slightly more lit than shit. I would agree. But it it's it's on the cusp.

Laura 1:19:18

It's on the cusp of a shit. This two-point system, it's got a spider neck again.

Bridget 1:19:26

This brings us to the end of our Twilight Saga Mega Mix Extravaganza. And also the end of season one of Talk Lit Get Hit. Make sure you subscribe to the show. And if you want to be on the same page as us, follow us at talklit.get on Instagram and TikTok.