bonus chapter: life and death by stephenie meyer

this episode we are bringing the cringe and chaos of a work christmas party to talk lit, get hit podcast for our annual “talk lit, get lit” drinking and podcasting extravaganza. for our last bonus chapter of the year, we are discussing none other than life and death by Stephenie Meyer. the booktok twilight renaissance continues as we pull apart the literary masterpiece that was promised to be midnight sun but instead ended up as a gender bent twilight reimagining.  we drink spiced ginger beers, crunch on pebble ice, clink glasses, demand justice for bella and have lots to say about the stars of the show - beaufort swan and edythe cullen.

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Transcript

Bridget 0:00

Hello and welcome to a Talk Lit Get Hit bonus chapter. The little book chats in between the big ones. We'll talk about reading, authors, and have discussions with people who, like us, can't shut up about books. We might get sidetracked and talk about literally anything else. But this is a bonus chapter we wrote just for you. This bonus episode is our last episode for the year, and just like last year we're on the piss, waxing lyrical about the year that was, and talking lit and shit about a book of your choosing. The winner this time around, by popular vote, was Life and Death by Stephanie Meyer. Hello, hello, Bridget. Hello, hello, Laura. Bridget, would you care to clarify what on the piss means? Just means having a few drinks. You know, with your gal pal. It's one o'clock somewhere. Happy hour is every hour, etc. etc. Thank you, thank you. Thanks for clearing the air. What are you drinking? Well, we just finished two lovely glasses of ginger beer with pebble ice. Oh, let me tell you, Maddie bought me this ice machine for my birthday, and it is the best present I've ever received in my whole life. I love pebble ice so much. We didn't know what it was called. We were calling it gravel rice. Um gravel rice. Drinks are working. Gravel ice, and it's just really enriched my life. So, yes, we've had the ginger beer with gravel rice. Oh my god, I said it again. We've had one drink to clarify. We had we had the ginger beer with the gravel ice, and now we're having some hard solo with the gravel ice. That's so funny. All of these drinks, though, are leftovers from my 30th and also your wedding. Oh, nice. So we're big drinkers, obviously. Like I know drinks from months ago, and that might be why after one drink, I'm mixing up the word rice in the ice. Well, I did say last time we did this that I am a real lightweight. I'm not very good at drinking. Even at my own wedding, had to put myself to bed. She was in bed by 12.05. Oh, there we go. After nearly falling in the fire.

Laura 2:15

Get me away from these flames.

Bridget 2:20

True words have never been spoken by a bride. And you know what? Had a great sleep. You did. Woke up fresh the next day. You were up really early. Clean on top of the world. Before we kick off our discussion of the book, I think it's only right that we do a little bit of housekeeping and talk about the year that was. This is our Christmas party, so we need to like tie up loose hands. You need to, you know, clear the crap out of the cupboard to get ready for the new year. So I'm keen for this. Me too. Simple task. Maybe we can start by ranking our podcast books. So this year we've read 12 books specifically for the show, and I'm not talking about our other discussions like our Bridgetton, Mona Awad, uh Sally Rooney episodes. I'm talking about the books that we read to cover off on our 12 genres throughout the year. I'm thinking let's rank them least favorite book to most favorite book. The suspense will kill us. Starting with the shittest book. Bridget, would you like to kick us off? We are 100% gonna have the same book here, and it is Fifty Shades of Grey. It's the shittest book to have ever been written, edited, published, printed, etc. etc. It sucks. It's so bad. It sucks so bad. It feels so unoriginal to hate on it, but it truly is just the worst. I mean, it is hated upon for good reason. Agree. My number 11 is romantic comedy. That is my number 11 as well. Once again, boring. Nothing happens that is worth putting in a book. Main characters are awful. Pandemic treatment, awful. Jerry Poosy's pets. Poor Jerry. Poor pup cakes. What was a dog called? I can't remember. Puppason. Sprinkles or something. Oh, who knows? Who cares? What a stupid book. Stupid book. My number 10 is Song of Achilles. Mine too. What the heck? Another boring book. Wow. If you like it, I'm sorry. You can like it. But I hate mythology. And in the time since I've read it, I've even backtracked of some things that I said that were complimentary. Like I think the writing is just so I don't know, a word that you've used before is overwrought. Like for no reason. It's just too much and like nothing's being said. I would probably take back how positive I was about it in the episode as well, which still wasn't that positive. But I think when I look back on it, I had really had almost zero fun reading it. So on that basis, it's a solid 10. To me, it just read like I got up in the morning and I watched the sunrise. It filled me with hope and excitement for a new beginning. I looked at the sun, it filled me like it was just over and over again the same shit and said nothing. My number nine, a book I still didn't enjoy, but still had a tiny amount more fun reading, is Divergent. I think before I got too far into this book, actually almost the whole way through this book, I was like, yay, YA fiction. But then overwhelmingly afterwards, I was like, Yeah, YA fiction. Yeah. Exactly that. It's like when you stop to think about it for a second, you realise how completely insubstantial it is. What a stupid rinse and repeat exercise of a book it is. I see why it killed the genre. I think it could have been something more. It's not a bad setting, it's not a bad plot, it's not a bad idea. But like rereading it now, yeah, I can see where there's parts that are lacking. What was your number nine? My number nine was a good girl's guide to murder, mainly because of the audiobook. I didn't mind the book like YA fiction again, had to have my YA blinkers on. I try not to let that preconception taint what I feel about a book, but I don't know, it's just sometimes you've just had enough. I just Yeah, I don't know. I get it. I get it, I really do. I'm really happy to like move into 2025 and not think about this book anymore. Please, no more YA. My number eight was Cemetery Boys. Once again, another YA book that I thought was kind of lacking. I think I said in the divergent episode, or maybe you did, I can't remember, that we have books like The Hunger Games, they are YA. We have books of that caliber. Why can't all YA be like that? I mean, I just can't get past my annoyance regarding the main character of Yadriel.

Laura 6:47

Poor guy.

Bridget 6:50

Yeah, what was yours? Actually, my number eight was also Cemetery Boys, and I think that I almost would say I enjoyed this. Actually, I would say I enjoyed this. I got swept up in the story, I thought there were cute moments, I got emotional, but also like it's a story about two guys that fall in love over the course of like two days. It was fated to not be liked by me because it does have so many elements like the urban fantasy, the paranormal romance, the insta-love, um, just sort of like a lot of glaring plot holes where I'm I was never gonna like it that much. I'm surprised to have liked it at all. I had a really dreadful feeling going into reading it. I was like, this feels like a very nasty thing to do. Feels like a hate crime. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, thank God it actually was quite good. Yeah, I agree. I'm all for diversifying bookshelves and, you know, platforming a diverse cast of characters and diverse authors. So I was really worried that I was gonna hate this like I hated I don't know, pick any of the other books. But I really did like this. And I think that just because it's number eight doesn't mean that I think it's bad. It's just like in the middle, it's hard to differentiate between sort of like three-star books. Same for me. Um well, my number seven was a good girl's guide to murder, and really the same as Cemetery Boys. It was a book that was fine, it was a solid three stars, it didn't compel me to read the rest of the series. I got caught up in the story at the same time. I thought bits were funny, I thought bits were slightly moving, I found some of the characters endearing. I unfortunately listened to the audiobook, which left a really bad taste in my mouth. I see why people like it. I acknowledge it wasn't for me. My next one was Rouge. Oh my god. Is that yours? Rouge for me was I think the second Mona Award book that I had read, and I was expecting it to be like Bunny, which I had really enjoyed both times that I read it, more the second time. I really enjoy how Mona Award writes relationships, especially mother-daughter relationships. I find them to be quite heartbreaking and realistic, even though they're set in this surreal, magical fantasy land. But it didn't like pull me too far into the story. And I think talking about the episode in the podcast really helped me enjoy the book. I think I feel very similarly. I think um when I read it, I thought, yep, this is pretty good. I'm having fun, I guess. I'm not sure that I get it. I remember searching for some sort of obvious overarching theme or metaphor and not quite feeling sure that I'd understood it or I'd grasped what the point was. And through talking about it on the podcast, I got a lot more appreciation for it, but I just can't stop the fact that my initial reaction was okay. I really think she's a very talented writer, and I think she has like a very distinctive style that I enjoyed liking Bunny, and I haven't read all of her other books. I read part of 13 Ways of Looking at a Fat Girl, and the part that I read, I was like, yeah, this is definitely Mona Award. I think she's a talented author. Don't think Rouge hit quite as I hoped it would for me. The next one for me was Divergent, and it really wouldn't have been this high on the list if I hadn't read it in 2013, 2014. I just remember really liking it at a time when I wasn't reading that much. I was at uni, I was pretty busy, I had multiple jobs, and this book somehow made its way into my life. I really liked it, so reading it now I can recognise that it is not a great work of art, but I still enjoyed it for what it meant to me 10 or so years ago. My number five was Bride. This is a very weird list of books because actually there's not many on this list that I truly loved. Spoiler alert. And there are a lot where I'm like 3.5, three stars. Bride. We didn't discuss this in our episode. I think it wouldn't make it past a three stars for me still, but I had a lot of fun reading it. I'm also putting it so high on this list because I'm just shocked. I'm just overjoyed. I'm so happy for Allie Hazelwood that she's redeemed herself in my eyes, not that she cares whatsoever. I can't help it. She had us by the throat. She hit us by the plot throat. She did. She really did. My number five was also Bride. And I feel exactly the same way. I have been disappointed by Allie Hazelwood books in the past. I have liked Allie Hazelwood books in the past, but this one is by far the best so far. So far. So now we're getting to the pointy end of the list. And my number four is everything I know about love. I mostly really enjoyed this book. There were a few parts that let me down, as we talked about in the episode. I hated the recipes, I hated the ones where she would say, like, texts I sent off my friend's phone, things like that. I just thought, why would you include this? But I also just can't get past the fact that she is a privileged woman talking about how she gets drunk, gets high, dates the same guy over and over and over again without seeming to learn from any of that. And I mean it's a memoir, it's her life, but I just think at some point there has to be a little bit of growth. And I don't know how much of that was evident in the book. That's a good summary of how I felt about everything I know about love. And despite that, my number four was the hating game. But you were right that this is the pointy end of the list because this was even more difficult than figuring out the books in the middle. I loved the hating game. It feels like it could almost be a number one, honestly, and that could again be purely for the shock of enjoying it so much. I thought it was so funny. I can't quite figure out why I was so completely charmed by this book, but I just know that I was. It is my number three, and I feel exactly the same way. I'm so happy to have liked a fluffy, unserious book, especially because it's by an Australian author. Advanced Australia Fair. Well, we're not so different after all, because my number three was everything I know about love, and I was debating putting it lower on the list, kind of for those same reasons that you listed, but I have read it I think three times now. I do find something moving or insightful or funny about it each time I read it. And although, yeah, I do definitely see those problems with it. I think three times reading a book and not hating it is a pretty good tally. Yeah, I think so too. It's number four for me, but I still really like it, and I'm still really excited to see her talk. I think is it next week or the week after? We're gonna go to Brisbane and see her in person, so I'm very excited. My number two, interesting to see if we'll be the same here, is My Brilliant Friend. I really thought this book was just so expertly crafted. It's also doubly impressive because it's translated from Italian by Anne Goldstein, so we have another layer that I really can't even begin to understand. I love the friendship so much. I love the setting, I love the life lessons the girls are learning. It's just incredible. My number two was Pride and Prejudice. Oh, sweat. It feels a little bit sacrilegious, and I did struggle making this choice. It's hard to say how much my decision was influenced by the fact that my brilliant friend is new to me. I really wanted Pride and Prejudice to have that number one spot because as we discussed in the episode, it is just so shockingly enduring. And actually saying that out loud now, I'm like, I've made a mistake. But for the same reasons that you found my brilliant friend brilliant, that's why it's my number one. I think, yeah, I was just so completely amazed by the fact that it's translated fiction. And I think it was a story that's quite new to me, and a story that I love to see these two very insular, codependent female friends, but told in a way and in a setting and in a time in history that I've never read before. And although I am yet to read the rest of the series, as I so boldly said I would definitely do, I'm still really excited to get there one day, hopefully soon. I find myself thinking about it quite often, which is always a good sign. So obviously, my number one is Pride and Prejudice. And I was also trying to decide whether this should be one or two, but I just thought, I have to give it number one. I love it. It's just so, so romantic and funny, sharp. It's got so many observations that are still relevant now. And also like the source material for one of the greatest movies, one of the greatest TV shows. True. That was really hard to keep track of, so I'm glad we're finished. Me too. This I think will be much easier. I want to know what your favourite and least favourite episodes are. It will be so interesting to see how these differ from the rankings that the books were given. As we've discussed many times, just because the book is good doesn't mean an episode's gonna be good, and just because the book is bad doesn't mean the episode is gonna be bad. In fact, it's normally the opposite. So let's start with our least favourite, I think, to leave a bit of intrigue. What is your least favourite podcast episode of season two, Laura? My least favorite episode of season two is My Brilliant Friend. Interesting. Very shrewd words by you, Bridget. I think the reason for this is that I found it really difficult to talk about. I think I was aware it was a type of book that I don't feel we've ever really talked about on the show before. It was quite a bit more literary. I think we had this translated fiction discussion going on as well, and I really didn't feel equipped to be handling it with like any sort of insight. I think it's also a book that aligns more with our personal reading styles. Yes. As well, which was a quite a big departure from the books that we usually read on the podcast. And I think that's also partially why I found it so difficult to talk about, because I found myself getting really defensive, and in my defensiveness, I felt like I just dominated that episode, and I felt like I was talking over the top of everyone, and I was not really saying anything that smart. I feel like I was just saying, I just like it, I just like it. It's hard to say because I've listened to it maybe three times at the absolute most, not including the editing notes. I just found it a really humbling experience listening back. I was like, this bitch does not shut up. It is so interesting because when I've listened to the episode, I really have never thought that once. So, you know, we are our own worst enemies.

Laura 17:29

We really are.

Bridget 17:30

I always think that everything you say is like purposeful and smart, and you should always just say what you feel. You're very kind to me with your editing process as well. I think you know when to wrap it up. What's your least favorite, Bridget? My least favorite episode was the Song of Achilles episode. I really, really disliked that book, and I just found any discussion of it to be like honestly quite boring. I wasn't interested in doing any work to make it interesting for me. I just didn't like it, and I think that's okay to not like books. I think that's okay. I know that reaction where you just you just checked out. We've definitely had books that have made us irate in how bad they are. And there's ones where you're like, I just want to forget it happened. I feel like I didn't say much in that episode, and I can mean the truth is I didn't have much to say. So yeah, I just think if I listen to it now, I just am reminded about the book. That's not something that I want to be reminded of. How about your favourite episode of the season? My most favourite is the Fifty Shades of Grey episode. And I don't think this will come as a shock to you. We recorded for three hours and I honestly barely drew a breath. I think normally when we do that, we're stopping and starting, stopping and starting, we're faffing around. The neighbors are annoying. Yeah, like dog barking. There's a plane, there's a train, there's a car. Oh my goodness, there's a Jehovah's Witness. There's always some issues, but I I don't think there were many interruptions in the Fifty Shades episode. I think it was just pure spewing. Spewing the whole time. We really were. It's such a funny episode. My partner, he's not an active listener of the podcast, but I think it's such a good episode and such a funny episode that the line, Anastasia, hold on, has worked its way into his vocab and he says it to me on the reg. So um, I don't know if anybody says on the reg. I don't think that's gonna catch on in this. Yeah, well, famous last words, but um, I remember how much fun we had making that episode, and I have so much fun when I'm listening to it. So I hope it translates. That is also my favorite episode. Surprise, surprise. I thought it might be. Editing the episode, I just had a smile on my face, like my cheeks were hurting. When I listen to it, it's the same. Like I it's just so terrible. The book is so terrible that you just can't have it's impossible to not have fun when you're talking about it. And it's so funny to me. Also, I just love any time that you're doing an accent. So we've done our favourite, we've done our least favorite. What about your wild card episode? Do you have any honorable mentions highly commended at the Astedford participation? Participation award. Make all the boomers mad. What do you reckon? I think if I had to give a special shout out to any episode, I would give it to the Cemetery Boys episode. This is one I was actually listening to today, and it was an episode that we did without Erin, and I remember we were really stressed about doing an episode without her. It was the first time we'd ever had to do one. And I think something that was good about the podcast was this like dynamic that we had between the three of us, old friends, and it was easy to chat and you know make it fun. And I think we were very worried that we wouldn't be able to rely on that sort of natural banter or facilitation of conversation or whatever you would call it. And although in retrospect this book isn't my favorite, I'm really proud of us for putting in so much work to structure the episode and to make the conversation meaningful and to just try and make it a good episode. What about your wildcard episode? My wild card episode was Talk Lit With Us. I think when I was doing my favorite and least favourite episodes, I sort of forgot that I could include the bonus chapter episodes. But I do really, really love this episode because we get so many messages from listeners and followers on Instagram, TikTok, and people are just so funny. I love being able to share some of the funny conversations that we have, the funny things that are sent to us, and also respond because I feel like like doing this, it just sometimes feels a bit like shouting into the void, and we never really know who's listening or if anyone's even listening. Like we've got the statistics, but it's like, what does this even mean? Like, we've got these numbers, but it's just us talking to each other. And I think you're all bots. Yeah. But I just found that was a really fun episode. And I don't know, we've had a lot of good feedback about that as well. And people have been asking us to do another one. So we really do want to do another one in the new year. Yeah, I would love to. This episode will undoubtedly contain spoilers for not just Life and Death by Stephanie Meyer, but also the entire Twilight saga, including Twilight, New Moon, Eclipse, Breaking Dawn, and Midnight Sun. If you've somehow escaped knowing the plots of these literary masterpieces and would like to keep it that way, press pause on the episode now. This is something that we don't typically do for our bonus episodes, but I think Life and Death deserves a little more reflection. For the uninitiated, according to our dear dear friend, it felt so good to be reunited. Our dear friend, the Twilight Wiki. Thank you. Thank you. Once again. Here's a little summary coming to you courtesy of The Twilight Wiki. Life and Death. Twilight Reimagined is an additional non-canon reimagining of Twilight. The book was written and published by Stephanie Meyer in honour of the 10th anniversary of the Twilight franchise. The story is set in an independent parallel universe in which the most significant difference is that the genders, names, and roles of the main characters have been reversed, with only a few exceptions. It follows essentially the same plot line as Twilight, with necessary adjustments and slight changes to dialogue, backgrounds, and personalities of the characters to accommodate the switched gender roles. Life and Death also features an alternate ending from the original plot line. I could hear you giggling throughout that whole thing. I just can't help it. I'm sorry. Okay. I think it's only right that we share our initial thoughts, expectations, hopes, and dreams. We owe it to Miss Meyer. Mrs. Meyer. So I just completed my yearly reread of Twilight. I read Twilight, then Midnight Sun, New Moon, Eclipse, The Short Second Life of Brie Tanner, and Breaking Dawn. I think I did that in 20 days. When it came time to suggest a book for Talk Lit Get Lit, I obviously had Twilight on my mind. I suggested it, knowing that I would read it even if it didn't win. Surprisingly, it did win. I was surprised. It was a shock to me. I really thought we were going to be reading It Happened One Summer by Tessa Bailey, but life and death really showed us that the Twilight community is never far away. They are robust. Where you lead, I will follow. Honestly, I was pretty excited to read it. At this point in time, the last six books that I read were vampire books. And I was like, give me more. I also said in, I don't know, one of the episodes in the Twilight Saga Mega Mix Extravaganza that I had read this book. And I don't know if I was lying or if I had made a fake memory, or if I have read it and I just forgot about it. I can't remember, but I said that I'd read it. So it's a mystery. It's one of the great mysteries of our time. It felt familiar to me. I mean, there's a lot of reasons that can be true. But I just can't work out what's true. So I don't know if I if I'm a liar, if I've got amnesia, or if I'm just making things up for no good reason. That would be very Robert Pattinson of you. How about you, Laura? What were your initial thoughts? I was so intrigued to partake in a piece of Twilight-related media that was completely new to me. Not only had I never read this, I think I'd heard so little about it that I almost thought I'd imagined it. I knew nothing about it. I was suspicious because seeing nobody talk about it made me feel like it was extremely awful or boring. And then I found it in my street library, which was pretty astonishing. And I picked it up, but I remember I armed an ard, armed an ard, like why would I ever read this? I don't think I'll ever read this. Thank God I got it, because yeah, just as shocked as you about the vote. I was very excited to read this. Genuinely. I just think about the fun that we had while we were doing our Twilight Song on Mega Mix Extravaganza. And I'm also like so happy because we still have Midnight Sun. We still have the short second life of Bree Tan, or whatever it's called, if we ever wanted to read that. A reread is always on the cards, for me at least, because reading the books this time, I found so many things that I hadn't picked up on before, or maybe I hadn't just forgotten. New things that I thought were worthy of discussion. Ah, don't forget new things that made you cry. New things that made me cry. What did I tell you? Something about Jacob. Jacob. Yeah. I was shocked. Did Jacob make me cry? Yeah. I know that I cried in another place. I cried when Bella showed Edward her mind at the end of Breaking Dawn, which is quite embarrassing. I think it was when he got the wedding invitation. Oh, yeah, 100%. No, that's it. Yeah. So yeah. That's right. I forgot about that.

Laura 27:10

So it wasn't really that I was crying about Jacob.

Bridget 27:17

It was Edward related, because of course it was.

Laura 27:24

But I was crying. Let me read it out to you. It's so nice.

Bridget 27:28

God, I blocked that from my mind. But I remember because you told me enough. I was like, oh I can't I really can't even pretend to relate to this. But it was what was really funny was after I like took a photo and sent it to you, I was like, oh, it's actually not that nice.

Laura 27:50

So even I know.

Bridget 27:51

Okay, so this is the part that I cried about. It's when Jacob has opened his wedding invitation. It's a note from Edward, and it says, Jacob, I'm breaking the rules by sending you this. She was afraid of hurting you, and she didn't want to make you feel obligated in any way. But I know that if things had gone the other way, I would have wanted the choice.

Laura 28:15

I promise I will take care of her Jacob. Thank you for her for everything. Edward God. God, Jesus. It's so nice.

Bridget 28:31

I've got tears in both eyes. You got so red in the face, I could see it coming. I need to get tissue now and wipe my eyes. We're gonna skip the blurb because the blurb is the same as Twilight with the name swapped. But as per usual, I think it's good to share our post-reading feelings. Bridget? I'm so nervous about your reaction. I'm freaking out, but I'm just gonna say it. I'm just gonna say once again, I'm so shocked that I enjoyed this. I enjoyed this. Like not a lot, but like way more than I thought I would. Okay. You did not like this. No, I really, really hated it. This is amazing. This is like the first time we've ever disagreed. I'm so happy about this, actually. Maybe not for this book, but I was hoping that we would have a book that we disagreed on because it's been a little bit too smug. Yeah. Yeah. I think I just couldn't help myself. I just couldn't help myself. This is my dream. Uh my dream is that Twilight ended at Twilight. I think while at the time I was so happy that the saga continued, I think that I can say now that Twilight is undeniably the best book. Like for me, it should have ended there. I think the rest of the series adds nothing for me but agony. I really don't like Jacob. At the end of the Twilight Saga Mega Mix, when we were ranking all four of the books, I was like, I really like don't care that much for any of the others. I know I did at the time. So I mean, I guess it's hard to talk about now because I know it used to be important to me, but Twilight is such a perfect, cozy read. And so the opportunity to revisit that and have it like sort of anew in its entirety was great. I and I think like a disclaimer is that if it came out as life and death and I never read Twilight, I would not have given two shits about it. I would not have cared. It has to be a boy, it has to be the self-insert of Bella. But I just had fun. I had so much fun reading this. I'm really happy for you. Okay, go on. Okay. So the only word that was like coursing through my veins, through my mind was abomination. I thought this was an abomination. It took away everything good about Twilight. The ending was absolutely awful. I used to think that Bella should have become a vampire in Twilight. After reading this, no. If that is how she's gonna write that ending, no. What was going through her mind? That was the stupidest that transformation process and after is the stupidest thing that she's ever written. It's so dumb. Well, I d I don't disagree with you there. Like, I think I'm possibly getting confused because the way that she wrote it is awful. But the ending itself, I love. Like, I am so happy that the Bella slash Bo character is reaping the rewards of the stupid, selfish decisions they've made throughout this novel. They have to like reap the rewards, that is, attend their own funeral. That's so true. And watch the people that they love cry and know that they'll never make amends for the horrible shit that they said to them. I mean, this is okay, maybe I'm coming on a bit hot here. Anyway, I No, I I think you're right. I think I liked the concept of the ending, but the way that Stephanie Meyer wrote it. I mean, you are right. The word is abomination. She's made no improvements as an author. No, I think the funeral part, I thought that was actually devastating. But for me, my main problem was the transformation. Also the fact that I I didn't believe their relationship, I didn't believe them together. I think with Bella and Edward, I did for some unknown reason. I really do believe that they were obsessed in love, like that was it for them. But I just for some reason I don't buy it with this. And I just think that when they got there and realized it was too late to suck the venom out, I was just like imagining Edith in my head being like, I barely know this kid. I'm not I I don't want him because I don't know him, he's an idiot, I'm an idiot, I don't want him, but they're stuck together now, and I just think that if Bella had changed into a vampire at the end of Twilight, I don't know if I would have had the same reaction. But the way this book was written, the changes that she made in their personalities, I just didn't buy it. They just it was I don't know. Edith would be filled with regret that she ever spoke to this kid, that she's now stuck with him for the rest of eternity. He sucks so much. I'm like, I'm hearing what you say, and I don't disagree with it, but I actually can't shake a feeling that I had so much fun when I was reading this for whatever reason. I think them not making sense together is something I was ticking over. And I was thinking about it some more when I was listening to our Twilight episode, and we were talking about how nobody has ever looked after Bella. And so it makes sense, even though Bella can't really seem to articulate it or understand it herself, but it makes sense that she's looking for somebody like Edward who will take care of her and who can protect her and who wants to look after her. And I mean justice for Bella, because one of the things that upset me about this book was that Bo got more of an explanation about what a shit parent Renee is than Bella ever did. And I was kind of like, he didn't deserve that. Like he's just a man that's on this page for a hot 500 pages. Poor Bella. And I just think in that regard, what Edith provided Bo was never really explained. Like, I understand, I really understand what you're saying about like it doesn't make sense why they're together apart from she's hot to him and he's obsessed with her. It also didn't seem to me like Edith's life was lacking in any part. I think for me, the main appeal of Edward is that he is tortured. He is a sad, sad boy who is just like wandering the night looking for meaning in his life, grappling. This is so ridiculous. I know I hear what I'm saying and I know how stupid it sounds. But he's like wandering around, looking for meaning, like dealing with these existential crises like year after year, decade after decade. I'm sure it will turn into century after century. But Edith just seems like she's like bopping around, having a great time. Again, I hear ya. I will say though, I had a good time reading it. I just thought it was shit, like outer shit. I found the process of reading it fun because I was rereading Twilight, like page for page, and it was also like a bit of a test for my Twilight knowledge to be like, that word's wrong. What the hell? Why did she change that? Very interesting that she chose that word instead of what it was in Twilight. God, isn't she just insane? I think I was not expecting to enjoy it whatsoever. I had very low expectations for it. And once I heard, so what I had heard was that it was a word-for-word retelling, and the only difference was that she had done like a find and replace for the characters' names. And so I was just like delighted to be finding these little tiny differences in descriptions, elaborations on small moments, like different justifications or like reasonings around things. So I think that it was like a little spot the difference. And I It was fun. Yeah, that that was what I enjoyed. Like, do I think it was good? No. Would it stand on its own? Not at all whatsoever. And I think before we get way too carried away, we need to backtrack a little bit and talk about the foreword that Stephanie Meyer put at the front of this book. It took me a very long time to make it past this. I don't know how many pages. Not that many. It's not that long. There was so much in there. Riches.

Laura 36:46

Thank you, Stephanie.

Bridget 36:48

So, in the foreword, first and foremost, Stephanie Meyer is wanging on about how she hasn't released Midnight Sun and how she's so sorry that she hasn't released Midnight Sun. But she thought she had the idea that it would be so fun to see what if the roles were reversed, and what if she could kind of correct some of the things in Twilight. But it was for the anniversary, and people were upset that she wasn't releasing Midnight Sun. I think almost every review I've read of this book has been like, where's Midnight Sun? Why would she do this instead of Midnight Sun? Uh but she said in her forward that she didn't have time to write Midnight Sun, and so she just rustled this up. What else are you doing, babe?

Laura 37:35

I don't know.

Bridget 37:36

I don't know. With this, she's setting out to course-correct Twilight's wrongs. In this forward, I stumbled upon I think another bizarre line in the sand Stephanie Myers drawn in her research process, and that is a little dabble into parental custody rights in the 1990s. She lays out the conversions that she's made in this novel. She says I've done a pretty much straight across the board gender swap with all of the Twilight characters, and there are two exceptions. The biggest exception is Charlie and Renee, who have stayed Charlie and Renee. Here's the reason for that. Beau was born in 1987. It was a rare thing for a father to get primary custody of a child in those days, even more so when the child was just a baby. Most likely the mother would have had to be proven unfit in some way. What, like that would have been hard with Renee? Insane perspective, Stephanie. Insane. Yeah. I have a really hard time believing, she goes on to say, that any judge at that time, or even now, would give a child to a transient, unemployed father over a mother with a steady job and strong ties to her community. So I guess she's referring, you know, if Renee was a police officer or something like that, I'm sure she would have made her like a social worker. Of course, these days, if Charlie had fought for Bella, he probably could have taken her from Renee. Thus, the more unlikely scenario is the one that plays out in Twilight. Only the fact that a few decades ago a mother's rights were considered more important than a father's rights, as well as the fact that Charlie's not the vindictive type, made it possible for Renee to raise Bella, and in this case, now Bo. I mean, I have so many questions about this, and the first is like, why is it a custody battle? Why can't she alter that aspect of the story? Because as we will discover, she's made quite a few minor tweaks to the reasonings behind things. Why couldn't the story have just been that Charlie was transient and Charlie was, you know, jobless? But he had a great relationship with Bella. He was there for her. Renee was career focused, Renee was rooted in her community, and nobody's the bad guy. It's a good question. I guess because she's Mormon. Like nobody can be divorced unless it's like for a bad reason. And nobody can be breaking up a home unless it's like with ill intentions. I don't know. Maybe I'm pulling at straws here. Well, I wish that I could say that Stephanie Meyer revealing herself to be a men's rights activist was shocking to me. But unfortunately checks out. Like she of course, of course, this is what she thinks is important enough to write in like her first offering to the franchise in ten or less than ten years. But of course this is what she's talking about. What a surprise. Another titillating tidbit from this book is that she says she's sort of writing this to dispel any perceptions based around gender that you may have had coming from Twilight. But then she goes on to say on the very next page, there are many more changes in the writing that were necessitated by Bo's status as a male person. So I thought I would break them down for you. She assigns some arbitrary numbers here, but the one that annoyed me so much was that she said, Because Bo's personality developed slightly differently than Bella's, the biggest variation is that he's far more OCD. He's not nearly so flowery with his words and thoughts, and he's not as angry. He's totally missing the chip Bella carries around on her shoulder all the time. We will talk about this more later, but like this book is longer than Twilight, so I don't know where she gets off saying that he's not as flowery because he yaps. He says nothing of consequence at any point. And I mean, this year I really have gone on a journey. Like, first I've read Fifty Shades of Grey and I've like, I'm sorry, Bella, for every bad thing I ever said about you. But now I'm feeling so defensive of Bella because Stephanie Meyer hates Bella. And I think it's because she's a girl. Like the word choices that she has changed has made Bella seem like a vindictive, bossy bitch, and Bo is just like happy go lucky. He is like so chill, he's so cool, and poor Bella is just trying to live her life, and Stephanie is so mean to her. So who would have thought, honestly, that 2024 I would have been defending Bella? Like this time a year ago, I hate Bella. Sorry, it's changed. It's a real journey, but I honestly I understand. I felt so sad for Bella because again, listening to our Twilight episode when we were talking about, you know, Renee's shitty parenting, Erin had a line where she said, I just wish that we had one sentence from Bella where she said something like, It's nice to be looked after for the first time, talking about Charlie. And we got that with Bo. He has a line when Charlie puts the snow chains on his wheels, and he's kind of like, I don't hang on, this is a normal thing for a parent to do. Why am I feeling so emotional? I shouldn't have to do that stuff for myself all the time. And it just shit me because I think that's a very obvious realization for that character, and I felt so sad that that realization and that like sentence-level exploration of that relationship between Renee and Bella and Bella's inner life was not explored in Twilight or in any of the subsequent books. And that said, I had fun observing that difference. Like it's shit, both shit, the book's stupid, but I took great joy in watching it unfold. Looking at the specs that she provided for her changes, and she was like, um, actually, these are of course rough estimates. I did not count all of the words I changed or do any actual math. Why include it then, babe? Also, do you not have like an assistant? Do you not have a publishing company that could have maybe given some actual thought to this, maybe the search function, or just made it seem less like you just whipped it up in a night? That was so dumb. I just don't know why she does these things. Another of her arbitrary calculations was that. She said 5% were mythology issues. And when I read that, I was like, oh, thank God, justice for the quillutes. No. No. Not at all. Not around these parts, partner. She was she used her massive platform. I mean, this is the 10th anniversary edition. She used that platform to make absolutely zero course corrections where it mattered. Well, I think it could be time to talk properly about Beaufort Swan and Edith Cullen.

Laura 44:34

Hmm.

Bridget 44:34

I mean, I think we've alluded to how you feel about Beau, but would you like to flesh it out somewhat? I think the first thing that I want to talk about is the choice of names for our two main characters slash all of the characters. I would love to. I just think that there is something wrong with Stephanie Meyer.

Laura 44:57

A hundred percent.

Bridget 44:59

I don't think there was a single name where I thought could pick. Actually, the best one, undeniably pitch perfect no notes. I actually loved it. Was Michaela Newton. Yes, a hundred percent agree, actually. I think that's the only one she truly got right. I thought I had good ones. But looking at my notes, they're like awful. What a cop out. Hated this criminal. Hang on, there's gotta be one more. Okay, there's ones that don't count. So we have like Paul and Paula. What about Dr. Snow and Dr. Snow? Quill and Quill. Uh we had um Sam and Sam, like truly, truly lazy ones, Tyler and Taylor. So those ones, they are in my past. They don't count. Michaela is perfect, and then the rest, like we'll be discussing the what what did you think? I definitely agree about Michaela. Maybe Logan and Lauren. Yeah. Logan is sort of like a you know, antagonistic bad boy, I guess. I think before we get stuck into the rest of them, because god, I could just talk about this all night, but if we talk about Bo and Edith, it is so so so interesting to me that she decided that her two main characters would be called Bofitt and Edith. I could we not think of any other name starting with B and E. Um, do you have a pitch for what you think the name should be? Bofitt, I really struggle to replace. I have nothing. I hate the name Bo. I actually hate it. Bofitt didn't even know it existed. I'm not convinced she didn't make it up, but I really struggled to find, like, you know, an 18th century name. I mean, not that Isabella is. Well, I guess it's probably quite an old name that's had a very popular resurgence like throughout our lifetime. But yeah, I had nothing for Bo to do. I was thinking that he did seem a bit like a Blake. The closest I came was Ben. Benjamin or Benedict. I thought was like appropriately old-fashioned with a nickname that was more appropriate. I like that because I actually thought Bennett and then I thought, well, maybe not. Like it's an old-fashioned fancy name which matches with Isabella. And I think it's bland enough to be suitable for him. Yes, and it's like a normal enough name to have those conversations with the teachers. Like, no, Ben, it's Ben. Don't like just call me Ben. I did have something for Edith. I think her name should have been Elizabeth. Because of Pirates of the Caribbean? No, it was actually because when we got to the part where Bella would have been reading Jane Austen and Bo was for some reason reading 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, and I thought, Elizabeth. It should have been Elizabeth because it just matches. Edward, Elizabeth. I did a little bit of research. I think I figured out why she picked these names. Okay. When I googled boys' names starting with B, the very first name that came up was Bo. The very first name. When I dug a little bit deeper, I found out that Isabella and Beaufoot both mean beautiful. And Edward is an English given name. It is derived from the old English word Eid, Eid or Ed, I'm not sure. E-A-D, meaning wealth, fortune, or prosperous. And where meaning guardian or protector. And when I Googled Edith, it means the same thing. So she has just Googled the original names, found feminine and masculine names that match, and replaced them. So I just don't understand why she did this. I just think there's like so many normal names she could have picked. And then that's like without even taking into consideration the names of the Cullins, which I think after both it and Edith were the worst. So Carlyle became Corrine. They just didn't fit together on the page whatsoever. Alice became Archie, Emmett became Eleanor. Esme became Ernest.

Laura 49:16

I lost my shit every time I read that one. It's just like I'm so unfamiliar with the name Ernest because who this side of the century is named Ernest.

Bridget 49:29

Every time I saw it, I was like, Ernest. I could not wrap my head around it. Jasper became Jessamine. Oh Jessamine. Possibly one of the worst, Rosalie became royal. And then, although not a cullin, I think this one needs to have a mention. James became Joss. It's just so unbelievably dumb. It's Jacob Black. Becoming Julie Jules Black. That is so stupid. The name's Julie. And I did another one of my favorite things, which is make a voice memo. This is me when Bo is at La Push, and we're just about to meet Jacob, and I was like, I cannot even imagine what this is gonna be. I'm just about to get to the part in Life and Death where Bo meets Jacob. And I'm just trying to think of what Jacob's name might be because there have been some truly, truly unhinged names. And I'm coming up blank because there's already like a Jessamine or Jessamine or something. Maybe like Jacqueline or Jackie. Something crazy. It would have to be spelled weird if it was Jacqueline. Honestly, I don't know how her mind works. Let me have a look. I'm gonna give you my live reaction of what her name actually is gonna be. Julie.

Laura 51:04

Are you kidding me? It's Julie.

Bridget 51:12

I hate this book. It's just so ridiculous that she chose him to be called Julie. It's a spunky little 15-year-old character. Hey, Jules. Oh my god. 40-year-old tuck shop worker. I mean, I know she had to get the Jacob Jake Julie Jules thing. But like also, just don't. Jay, Jay was a tricky one. So you asked me if I could think of better names. And Jay was really tricky. Because we had Jasper as well. And there's not that many good ones to start with, Jay. No. But I think she could have found something better than Jules. Angela Weber and Alan Weber was also pretty bad. I think it does sort of match the characters though. I mean, it does match. But also. What high school has students named Alan? I did try to come up with better names, and it was pretty hard. I'm not gonna give Stephanie any grace on this, but Archie Cullen, I think it was like a pretty good fit for the Alice character, but I think it's a bad fit for this universe. And I think the Archie character, it's too like Braddy Rich Boy. I think it's a good fit for the name Alice. I couldn't really think of anything better. The only thing I could think of was like Ambrose, but I think that's too noble sounding. I couldn't think of anything for the rest of them. So I I mean I I do understand that it is hard. I thought maybe like Celeste for Carlisle or Camille for Emmett, maybe like Everly or something that's like a bit more like a potential for upbeat. June for Jasper, it's like a bit southern. Yeah, that's a good one. Esme, I mean I still Ernest made me laugh the hardest. I just what a loser. Also, Ernest seemed like a big loser. He really Esme is a big loser, but like listening to them describe this man called Ernest the same way that Esme, like it just seems like Ernest would have crippling anxiety. Not saying that people with anxiety are losers, but he just seemed like he would be like cowering in the corner in the mansion. I was looking at a list from the Twilight wiki, and it was pretty explicit with the characters' names. And the one that cracked me up so much was in Twilight, there is a character called Orlando Calderas Wallace. I saw this too.

Laura 53:39

And in life and death, her name is Gangster Woman. Fully sick, bro.

Bridget 53:46

Also, that's that's pretty messed up. Like if Stephanie's taken time out of her day to assign like a vaguely Latin American sounding name to the thug that tried to like abuse Bella. That's the guy, right? I guess. I don't know who else he'd be. Who finds out this info? Arena? I think it might be a midnight sun. Oh, okay. Because Edward gets Carlisle to go and drug Orlando and drop him off at a police station a few states away because he's wanted for many crimes. So that might be where they find that out. God. I think an honourable mention to um not just Jos but also Victor for Victoria. We couldn't go with Vincent. I think that's like slightly threatening. It it is like it's a hard one again with the bees. Royal Hale, the only blessing of this was that it made me think of Lucky Bluesmith for whatever reason. And again, I think that's a good visual for Rosalie's inverted character. I just thought it was a bit of a disservice to Rosalie because it just reminded me a little bit too much of Royce King. Yeah. Like it was just too similar to her horrible ex-fiance. And I just thought, once again, Stephanie treating the female characters like trash. Well, there's so much of that in this book. Like, so many of these inverted scenes have implications either beyond, like, you know, what's on the page or for the rest of the series, which I know doesn't exist in this instance. But like, for example, Stephanie's sort of resistance to the concept that the same violence that can be done to a woman can be done to a man. There's two instances of that in this book. And the first is like you were saying, Rosalie's backstory. So Royal's character isn't raped in the same way that Rosalie's is. I honestly can't remember what happens. I think he's just beaten up by like I think it's like a rival gang. Yeah. His nasty, conniving wife's like secret lover. She was in on it the whole time. There's no trauma with the baby. And then likewise with Bella. When we got that scene, the first scene when Bo's getting off the plane at the airport and he bumps into that random person and almost has like a bit of a biff. When that was happening, I was like, what? Why? What is going on? Yeah. Shock horror, like later in the novel, he stumbles upon them. It's Bo's version of Bella's like near I I think it was implied that Bella was about to be raped. Or maybe it was more explicit than I remember. But that can happen to a man too. And like senseless crime happens all the time. It doesn't have to be a run-in from somebody who's a policeman's son at an airport. Like she was really like doing a lot of legwork to justify why that would occur to Bo. There's the potential to look at that and say that Stephanie Meyer was making some sort of feminist comment, but I really don't think that's true. Yeah, I don't think so either. I know we've spoken about their names, but is there anything else that you'd like to say about the characters of either Bo or Edith? I think it was very interesting that Bo was allowed to be a little bit more raunchy than Bella ever was. And I would also like to say that in making him a little horny teenage boy, he creeped me out. I just hate the way that Stephanie Meyer writes male characters. Like when he was talking about the role of Edith's hips and the raunchy towel around the waist scene was weird. Um when they were like cuddling at one point, it was implied that he had a boner. And I just think like Bella was starved for so long. Bo gets like 50 pages in a book and he's already like, hey, do you think you're gonna have sex? Once again, poor Bella. Yeah, he was creeping me out, and I think he was boring. He did know he was boring though, which made it a little bit easier to bear. And I also just think that Renee is 100% a boy mum. Yes, she's got a bumper sticker and everything. When Bo made that comment on page four about how Bo could use Renee as a mirror when he's shaving, I was like, ew. Gross. What did you think about Bo? I really didn't have any strong feelings about him. I read a review that said that Bo was too feminine. He was ridiculously feminine and it was unbelievable. He was too feminine to be believed. I didn't think that he was feminine whatsoever. And I didn't feel particularly creeped out by him. I just felt kind of embarrassed by him. I felt sorry for Bella again in a slightly different way, because I think one of the things I was wondering as their relationship progressed was how would Stephanie Meyer handle the perception that Edward's behavior towards Bella was almost predatory in a way, in the way that he had so much power over her, both physically and emotionally, and he held all of the cards because he was like 117 years old or however old it is. Would those conversations and that understanding be the same with the gender roles flipped? And I think instead what we got was this character of Edith, who I liked Edith on her own. Like I would love to read a novel about Edith, and I would like to talk a little bit more about her later. But Edith was like this chill, cool girl. She was way more comfortable with sex and sexuality than I found Edward to be. And like, yes, I think Bo was a creepy little teenage boy to a degree. Like, I guess I didn't think about it too much, but I think that's because Edith was like just way more calm with it. She wasn't like, no, no, you'll go to hell, like the way that Edward was. There was no moral through line in this, and it made me feel so bad for Bella because, like, again, why was she being punished so much? I think with Edith, for me, like the real allure of Twilight for me is Edward. Yes. It's just no one like him in the literary world. And I just think Edith is interesting when you take her away from Edward, but like in comparison, she's nothing for me. And I mean, maybe if I was a man, I might feel differently. Like, but I really doubt it because what did she do? Like, what was her character? I agree with you. I don't think Edith, I don't think really anything in this story exists or works well without the context of Twilight. I will say that I thought a lot of Edward's lines worked really well in her voice. I think Edward's lines morphed her into this character that was completely different to him somehow, and a character that is in no way going to be getting in a relationship with a character like Bo. Like somehow, through giving them the same dialogue but making them different genders, I think she pushed them further away. Like I perceived her as that cool, confident, hot, like slightly bratty, slightly cheeky, um, you know, old soul kind of girl that has no business being in high school and is like when she's talking to a character like Bo, she's just entertaining him. Yeah, she's just toying with him. Manic pixie dream girl sort of vibes, but in the best of ways. Yeah. I think what you were saying before is absolutely right. Like they're not compatible in the same way that Bella and Edward are compatible for her. It's that thing where you see like a really hot, cool girl with just the most average guy, and you're like, why? You can do so much better. And that's what I was getting out of it. So I don't think like it's not aspirational in the way that Twilight is whatsoever. Who did you picture them as? Like, did you have any point of reference for either of them? Um, yeah, I did. Like initially, for some reason, I was picturing him as Sean Mendes, and that was pretty upsetting. I got over that pretty quickly, and then I have no imagination. So I pictured him as Logan Lerman, and I pictured her as kind of like a Yassified Emma Watson. How about you? I pictured him as the boy in that Jennifer Lawrence movie, like No-Howed Feelings or whatever it's called. Like gangly, not unattractive, but like awkward, pimpley, gangly, a teenager. That's how I pictured him. And I think for her, I sort of pictured her as Haley Steinfeld's character in the edge of 17. Bit less grieving, maybe, but that same sort of I don't know, like witty, like sharp sense of humor. But I'm I'm not 100% sold on that. I was also wondering how like the strength and physicality of a vampire would manifest in Edith from the perspective of a teenage boy. And initially I was like, oh, okay, all right, because he was kind of saying something to the effect of like, oh, she looks really strong somehow, um, like she's confident, blah blah. Like he's had something kind of semi-neutral and positive to say about her to start with. And then suddenly it was like he was talking about her twig-like collarbones, and it just was so annoying that she's an actual vampire. She keeps telling you that she could crush you, like she could kill you in an instant, and he's still like, She's so tiny. I just like she's the most frail little bird. It is pretty funny that like we did have one line on page 174 where Edith says to Bo, try not to get caught up in antiquated gender roles, even though the whole book Bo has been doing exactly that. Like, he's been carrying her bag between classes. She's a vampire, she's fine. Also, even if she wasn't a vampire, girls can carry things, it's fine. You don't need to do that, you don't need to open car doors. I mean, you can if you want to, but it's not a requirement. And you don't need to pay for dinner. No, but there was that scene where she paid for lunch at the cafeteria, which is something we never discussed in Twilight. I really want to talk about this. I've done some research. It was real weird. I think in Twilight it didn't specify how much they spent. No. I thought cafeteria lunches were free. Well, they nearly are. In Australia, we don't have mess halls or whatever you call it. We have a canteen or a tuck shop or something like that where you just go and choose what you want. But most people I would say bring their own lunch to school. Bring a sandwich and a banana, and then you're set. So according to educationdata.org, the average cost of a school lunch is between $2.75 and $3. Whoa. At my school, you'd be like near and $10, I don't know. Yeah, that's that's a good deal. So in an average 31-day month, school lunch costs anywhere between $55 and $60. And for a year, that would be between $495 and $540. Adjusted for inflation, a 2004 school lunch would have cost less in today's money than $1.80. Oh my gosh, that's good. So they spent $24.33 on lunch for two people, which is nearly seven times each. So I want to know what were they buying and why? And again, like once again, please, vampires of the world, stop buying food if you know you're not gonna eat it. This is a plea from me to you. I thought Charlie's relationship with Bo was quite funny because I Really think that Charlie thought that Bo was a dumb shit. What led you to believe this? Um, at the end, when Bo was like, I've just gotta leave, Dad. You just gotta let me go. And he was like, Are you on drugs? Like, you can't leave now. I just think he treated Bella with so much more I don't know, like mutual respect. When he said that his scarf looked goofy, yeah, slammed. That was pretty funny. I also think it was funny, like we still had those comments from Bo about like Charlie being wary of a dinner, and he was like, he's probably used to my mom's cooking. It's probably because you're a 17-year-old boy. That's probably more to do with it. I doubt he remembers your mum's cooking, babe. Which is another thing that I always forget to bring up whenever we're talking about Twilight. And it's when she realizes that Charlie is still in love with Renee. I am surprised that this was left in because once again, where's the proof? Yes. He's just got like family photos up. He's not off to Kmart every weekend thinking, hmm, how can I redecorate this house? He's never there. He's fishing, he's watching sport, he's not interested. Doesn't mean he's still in love with someone from 17 years ago. Yeah, there's absolutely zero evidence to back up this bold claim that they confidently make at the start of two books. I loved his commitment to saying holy crow. Yeah. Could have done without that both times around. I also think another weird choice for Stephanie Meyer to make was maintaining that Bo was OCD in that way that so many people do when they have no diagnosis, they have no real understanding of what obsessive compulsive disorder actually is. It's just like, oh, I like to have things straight. I'm so OCD. That absolute rubbish. And one of the only examples that we get of him being so OCD is him reorganizing the kitchen to the way that he likes it, which I think is a pretty normal thing for someone who's going to be doing most of the cooking to do. And then also when he cleaned up the house, that was so obviously OCD. Yeah, it's weird because I think if we're using that arbitrary definition of OCD, then by that definition, Bella is more OCD. Neither of them are, I would pretty confidently say. But yeah, I was expecting to see some pretty intense behaviour from Bo given Stephanie's confident disclaimer in the prologue, but nothing. Nothing came to light. I love that the only weapon that Stephanie has in her teenage boy Arsenal is him drinking milk straight out of the carton a few times. She's like, yeah, got him with this one.

Laura 1:08:40

My god.

Bridget 1:08:41

I've got one last thing about Bo that I think really drives home how unfair Bella's story was, and it's the fact that Bo's transformation lasted one night because his bones were not as badly damaged, and he was in good health. Bella's transformation was awful, absolutely awful, and it was awful to read, and it would have been awful to experience. But like Bo, easy way out once again. Doesn't have to grapple with that, makes a decision, split second, just to get rid of the pain. He's a vampire in a matter of hours, and then everything's fine. It actually the way it's tied up is like comically stupid. Um, so there's two endings. There's the ending of the book, and then there's the epilogue ending. And the ending of the book after he's transformed and like had the same experience as Bella, but like majorly accelerated, where he's like, What the frickin' heck? I'm actually not hungry. Um, what? Like it's hard. Like he's just the best vampire ever. And he says, We ran together into the darkness that wasn't dark, and I was unafraid. This would be easy, I knew, just like everything else. And then the ending to the epilogue is just as insipid. He said, Forever was going to be amazing. I hated that. I mean, the ending lazy, but you're so right about poor Bella. And while I didn't like the proposal or the marriage in Twilight, like a thousand times more romantic than the shit that happened in this book. They were just like, um, you would marry me? Yeah. Oh, what do you reckon? Should we get married? Yeah. They're like five-year-olds at preschool being like, You're my boyfriend now. Okay, you're my girlfriend now. I sort of blocked some of that stuff out. I don't know why she had to. I mean, I guess because she's Mormon. I don't know why she had to persist with that kind of thing. Because actually, those characters are 17 years old. And also, like, part of the reason why they had to get married in Twilight was the public story that they got married, they're gonna grow away together. But everyone thinks you're dead. And also, Edward wanted to get married to save Bella's soul if she became a vampire. And Edith does not vocalise that concern one time. I also thought it was unfair, like in a similar vein, when I think it's after the meadow scene when they're spending the night together in Bella slash a Bo's room for the first time, and they're talking about vampire life, and Bella says, marriage, like, would that be possible for us? And then Bo's kind of like, could we smash? Again, I mean, we all know what Bella's asking, but she has to use this like veiled language because Edward answers the question in the same way, but he's not answering the question that she asked, which is could we get married? In Midnight Sun, he does say something like, I knew what she was asking me, but because she didn't use the word, I didn't use the word either. They were tiptoeing around it. But you're right, it's shame. I know I kind of talked before about how I'm happy that Bo had to watch his own funeral and live forever with the knowledge that he's put the people that he loves through this due to his own stupid actions, which I think before reading this book is something I probably would have said I would have liked to see for Bella. I think I I I do think I like to see this for Bo, but something that crossed my mind is that the last thing he would have said to Charlie are those words that Renee said to him before she left Forks. And I don't think enough time was given to that. Like, I mean the whole ending was rushed, but that's pretty heartbreaking. I don't think so either, and I also don't think enough time was given to the guilt that both Charlie and Renee would feel that their only son was found burnt out over the side of a cliff or something. It's horrific, and it was glossed over like we've just got one more stop to make before we can go on to our little slice of forever. Sorry, real quick, just gotta watch my funeral. It was really giving wow, so many people.

Laura 1:13:00

And there weren't that many.

Bridget 1:13:03

Absolutely terrible, terrible behavior. Like, how can you watch your own parents be your pallbearers and then be like, okay, let's go?

Laura 1:13:13

It's so true.

Bridget 1:13:14

I do like the concept. I think it's the only way I could have absolved it in Twilight as well, but I do like the concept that without vampire interventions, Bo actually would have died, or Bella actually would have died. I like that the choice is taken, essentially taken out of all of their hands. Like they don't get there in time, so it's not really up to Edith to save Bo or change Bo. And it's up to Bo to say, do you want to live as a vampire or do you want to die? I think that's the only way it would have worked for me in Twilight, because I mean it's just too insane of a choice. Like we still have the same InstaLove timeline, like it still takes place over five months or less. Yeah, but I do think that this was a real turning point in Bella and Edwards' relationship. It was when he's so dumb. But it's when he realized that he was strong enough to not kill her. Like, you know, he tasted the pomegranate. He was like, I love her, I can do this. And we just never got that with Edith. We never got that with Bo. And I just think it's kind of the easy way out. I think it is, for sure. Maybe I'm just enjoying it as a new what if. Because I mean, like what I'm hearing myself say and what I know to be true is that this ending is bad. And I think, yeah, maybe I'm just struggling to disentangle that I'm enjoying this exploration of another alternate ending. I also liked that, you know, beyond this point, although she's so annoying, I do like that it gives Bella more leverage in their relationship or more determination. I don't know. I think she finds their voice and is like, nah, you know what? Psychotic as it is, this is what I want. Although there are opportunities like for Alice to change her, like for Carlisle to change her, like for her to go to the Volturi. It's so intimate that it's Edward that does it in the end. I hate the circumstances, but it's not an especially romantic vibe to end up together by accident. We're coming to the end of the episode, but I just have a few things left over that I quickly thought I would bring up. And the first one was the like inspired description of Edith's eyes. She had long eyes. Telescopic. He described her as having long eyes on page 42 and page 47. Or twice. I don't get it. Long eyes. It's not really a word that you associate with eyes. Tubular. Also, I'm not sure if Edith wasn't aware that Bo was a human because she kept saying things like, now be a good boy. I think she thought he was a dog. Weird vibes all round. I thought I would also just quickly say some of the words that I noticed that had changed. Yeah, please. That I think were gender crimes, basically. Yeah, please. I would love to. So my two examples that I think were quite interesting that Stephanie changed when they when she changed the gender was that Jessica could prattle, but Jeremy rattled. Very interesting to me because prattling makes it seem like it's something unimportant, but rattling makes it seem like a divulging of information. Yes, I think so. Very interesting. And then also when Bella is released from the hospital, hisses to Edward. I need to talk to you. I hissed. Bo whispers it. Oh, he's so calm. Like Bella's so she's just a bossy bitch. She's hysterical. She's hysterical, and Bo's just not. I noticed some of the big scenes, like the big quotes, had been changed. And I mean, nothing could compare to the original, so it's on the back foot there already. But I did think that the language had been significantly changed to kind of like downplay the sentiment, and I don't think that's really something that you can do in a book where the choice is death or vampire, basically. So in Twilight we have my mind still swirled dizzily full of images I couldn't understand and some I fought to repress. Nothing seemed clear at first, but as I fell gradually closer to unconsciousness, a few certainties became evident. About three things I was absolutely positive. First, Edward was a vampire. Second, there was a part of him, and I didn't know how potent that part might be that thirsted for my blood. And third, I was unconditionally and irrevocably in love with him. Beau, on the other hand, says almost immediately my body relaxed, the tremors stilling. I pictured her face in my head, every angle, every expression, every mood. There were a few things I knew for sure. For one, Edith was an actual vampire. For another, there was a part of her that saw me as food. But in the end, none of that mattered. All that mattered was that I loved her more than I'd ever imagined it was possible to love anything. She was everything I wanted and the only thing I would ever want. It just doesn't hit the same. Nowhere close to hitting the same. She was an actual vampire. One of the other significant changes that I was quite vindicated by was the glittering aspect of the vampires. And this is something we talked about in our Twilight episode. I said that I had pictured it as sort of like difficult to behold, beams of light shining off, and then was kind of like humbled somewhat by the movie representation. And what we have in Twilight is Edward in the sunlight was shocking. I couldn't get used to it though I'd been staring at him all afternoon. His skin, white despite the faint flush from yesterday's hunting trip, literally sparkled, like thousands of tiny diamonds were embedded in the surface. He lay perfectly still in the grass, his shirt open over his sculpted incandescent chest, his scintillating arms bare. His glistening pale lavender lids were shut, though of course he didn't sleep, a perfect statue carved in some unknown stone, smooth like marble, glittering like crystal. But by comparison what we have in life and death is it was only when her eyes flashed open and I got close enough to begin to understand what I was seeing that I realized she hadn't caught on fire. She threw her hands up again, palm forward and I stumbled to a stop, almost falling to my knees. The light blazed off her skin, dance and prism like rainbows across her face and neck and down her arms. She was so bright that I had to squint, like I was trying to stare at the sun. I thought about falling to my knees on purpose. This was the kind of beauty you worshipped, the kind you built temples for and offered sacrifices to. I wished I had something in my empty hands to give her, but what would a goddess want from a mediocre mortal like me? Laying it on a bit thick there, but I was like, okay, this is a description that matches with what Edward's saying, which is like, we're not human, and you can see it because of this. I just have one more thing to say about men's rights activist Meyer. And she took one step forward, but then she took one step back. So good news is she solved racism. Oh, thank God. She heard the criticisms of uh Eclipse especially, and she made Archie say a little side note about how luckily he wasn't a skinhead. That was a few decades after his death. So it was a little bit too early to be a skinhead. That was on page 412. But unfortunately for us, and unfortunately for Stephanie De Meyer, on page 204, she had already like taken a big leap backwards, and that was when she used the ableist s slur. I mean, now in 2024, we know that we should not be using that word. Yes. But I would say that in 2014 we also knew that. I think so. I did a little bit of research into the word usage, and the noun was originally a medical term and is now a pejorative, though the severity of this differs between the United States and the UK. So that might be the difference here. However, disabled people in the UK often consider it to be one of the most offensive terms related to disability. So shortly after Weird Al Yankovic's song Word Crimes was released in 2014, Yankovic said that he had been unaware that the word as used in the song is considered a highly offensive slur by some people, particularly in the UK, and he apologised for having it in his lyrics. So this was the same year at her big old adult age of whatever, however old she was in 2014, all of the editors that had had to go past. Why did no one pick this up? Why is it in the book? I mean, disability doesn't exist in the Twilight universe. Everybody's perfect. That is true. Everybody is freckle free and able-bodied and thin and hot and really fresh. Really cool. Oh, absolutely not. Bad choices. So one of our favorite parts of our Twilight Saga Megamix Extravaganza Last year was getting to experience the joy of combing through Stephanie Meyer's playlists for each of the books. And unfortunately, Life and Death does not have one. So we have taken it upon ourselves to compile a playlist. The first song I have is a song that I think Bo would be listening to upon arriving in Forks, and that is Seven Nation Army by the White Stripes. And I sort of had a vague feeling of what this song was about. Ah, but when I looked it up, according to Jack White, the song tells the story of a person who, upon entering a town, hears its residents gossiping about him and proceeds to leave the town in response. Great choice. Yeah. And I just think he would be like, Yeah. And the rain would be in like time for the song. Yeah. He'd be like, um, Walkman in pocket, head pressed a window, right in his feels. That's great. Thank you. What's your first song? My first song is for when Bo and Edith are still in the stage of like sort of angry resistance to each other. And I picked the song It Ain't Me, Babe, by Bob Dylan. Specifically for the lyrics, go away from my window, leave at your own chosen speed. I'm not the one you want, babe. I'm not the one you need. You say you're looking for someone who's never weak but always strong to protect you and defend you, whether you are right or wrong. Someone to open each and every door, but it ain't me, babe. Oh, I like that. And I think probably they should have maintained that for the rest of the book as well. My second song comes not too long after my first song. I think this is a song he would be listening to pulling up in his truck. I don't know how he'd be playing it. In his head, he'd just be listening to it in his mind, I guess. Um, and that is Here It Goes Again by OK Go. And he would also be obsessed with the YouTube clip. I watched that video like three times yesterday. It's it must be in our consciousness because I was like, this is perfect. He would so be that guy that's like he has a tote bag, he buys records, but like not in the right way, whatever that may be. You and I know it, he doesn't. He wears like skinny jeans, he likes all the right stuff, but just not quite in the right way. And it's it's hard to put your finger on what that is, but everybody seems to know it. Um I guess except the people in Forks and Edith, but like whatever. And the lyrics, just when you think you're in control, just when you think you've got a hold, just when you get on a roll, here it goes, here it goes, here it goes again. And I think despite the fact that he has lived in two cities his whole life, he'd be like, Oh, that's just like me, right? Moving cities, the new guy again. I agree. What is your second song? My second song happens in my mind after Edith saves Bo from the out of control vehicle. And she's like, It's better if we're not friends, don't talk to me, and phrases him out. And so the song I picked was Losing Group by Avril Levine. Oh, so good. Are you aware of what you make me feel, baby? Right now I feel invisible to you, like I'm not real. Didn't you feel me lock my arms around you? Why'd you turn away? Here's what I have to say. Oh, so good. At that point in time, that's what I would have been listening to. Like as Bo was getting slammed into by the car, that's what I would have been listening to in 2004. So you know, it's such a good song. Historically accurate. I didn't really have any songs that weren't for Bo, I have to say, but my third song that I had was one that I think he would be listening to once he starts dreaming about Edith, and once he's fully lost in the source, it would be everywhere by Michelle Branch. And it's one again that he's listening to like deeply in his feels. He's maybe singing it a little bit in his mirror, he's belting it out in the car because you're everywhere to me, and when I close my eyes, it's UIC. You're everything I know that makes me believe I'm not alone, I'm not alone. I'm always been unclear about whether this song is religious or not. I think she is religious. Okay, that tracks because this I mean it seems pretty explicit, and I think with Bo being like, she's like a goddess, I think that tracks. My next song was also from Bo's perspective. I was sort of imagining him wishing that Edith would stay with him and also like make him into a real man. I picked Goodnight and Go by Ariana Grande, especially for these lyrics. One of these days you'll miss your train and come stay with me. It's always say goodnight and go. We'll have drinks and talk about things, any excuse to stay awake with you. And you'd sleep here. I'd sleep there, but then the heating may be down again at my convenience. We'd be good. We'd be great together. I just think he'd be like, perspace it. Please, Edith. Please have sex with me. Kind of in the same vein, actually. Um, this is a song that I thought he would put on in a bid to seduce her. Um, in a in a bid to be like, see like what a mature, sensitive guy I am. He'd put it on, be like, when she would say, Oh, insert artist name, he'd be like, Oh, you know him. Um, and he'd just sort of be like, you know, shuffling around near the record player, like looking over at her to see if she's noticed what he's put on. Yeah, well, um, I think he would put on Mystery of Love by Sophia Stevens, and he'd be looking so meaningfully at her, oh, to see without my eyes the first time that you kissed me, boundless time by the time I cried, I built your walls around me. I myself am not entirely clear what kind of love or what relationship or if it's even about a relationship at all, this song. But I think he would be like, black and white, it's a love song, and it's for you. The next song I was picturing Bo sauntering into Fawkes High the day after their ravioli date, and he's like, shit, yeah, my girlfriend's a vampire. And I think he'd probably be trying to think to himself, how can I make this last forever? So I thought Into the Dark by Ben Lee would be like perfect. He's such a Ben Lee guy. I was one of those breathing tornadoes, but now I live at the eye of the storm, and it's all faded then since the separation. Since I let your love keep me warm. You tell me, baby, that you can feel me, I send a message out into the dark. When I kiss you, that's the real mean. I've got to find my way to your heart. Like he's like, I'm just gonna make her my girl. He has that confidence about him against all odds. It's so staggering. Yeah. Um, I only have one more song, uh, but it is the song that I think is the you know debussy in this universe. Well, I guess in this version I was picturing, they get into Bo's truck because to a degree I don't really want to see Edith listening to this. But it is the E.T. suite, like the main E.T song by John Williams. Like the point, it's like it's like incredibly similar to Star Wars.

Laura 1:30:33

Yes, that's it's quite I cry every time I hear it, honestly.

Bridget 1:30:39

But but Bo would be the kind of person that's like, you know John Williams, as if he's not like the most prolific, he's got fingers in every film score in the universe. He'd be like, Oh. Um, yeah, I just feel kind of like an alien too. I guess. 100%. And Edith would be like, Yeah, I I mentored him or something. I've seen her movies, like everyone. I was in ET. She'd have something way cooler, but he'd be like, you know him? Speaks to me. Yeah. I have seen a few fan petitions saying that this should be made into a movie. Which is staggering. But I think in its current form, no. But if we were to make it into like a modern day soft boy bow, I would be more into that, I think. Like what you're describing, way more interesting than what we get in the book. My next song was a tandem Edith and Bo, when they're sort of grappling with their uncertain futures and how they're meant to have a life together. So I thought, wouldn't it be nice by the Beach Boys? Wouldn't it be nice if we could wake up in the morning when the day is new and after having spent the day together, hold each other close the whole night through. But happy times together we've been spending. I wish that every kiss was never ending. Oh, wouldn't it be nice? That's so nice. And you just know that Bo is the viral video guy that's always like, Have you seen this YouTube video? It's like the Cadbury ad. He's like, oh, you've gotta watch it. This next one is where I got a little bit dumb, I think, a little bit ridiculous. And I just thought the way that Bo handled his immortality was so flippant and I don't know, nonsensical. Just was absolutely stupid. He was basically like shit, yeah, I'm a vampire now. So I thought it's nice to be alive by ballpark music. That is so funny. It's gonna be good. Um, don't stress, that's dumb. I'm here and it's nice to be alive. Oh, insufferable. Chill out, it's alright. Kiss me, it's nice to be alive. This is the you've read him to filth. That is amazing. Just give me one second, it's gonna go pop off to my funeral. I'll be back.

Laura 1:33:00

And he would do that dance and play that. God, I wish you guys could see me right now.

Bridget 1:33:06

I thought after I finished my list, I was like, well, I probably do need a funeral song because he is a little bit sad. But I thought, as we spoke about before, Charlie and Renee don't really get much thought put into like the way that the rest of their lives is now just ruined, honestly. And I thought of one of the saddest songs that I know that I try not to listen to, and it's Bigger Than the Whole Sky by Taylor Swift, and it says, No words, okay. Just imagine this is Charlie and Renee. Forget about the other idiots. Okay, especially Charlie. Don't care about Renee. No words appear before me in the aftermath. Salt streams out my eyes and into my ears. Every single thing I touch becomes sick with sadness, because it's all over now, all out to see. Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. You were bigger than the whole sky. You were more than just a short time. I've got a lot to pine about, I've got a lot to live without. I'm never gonna meet what could have been, would have been, what should have been you. It's very generous of you to assign that to this book. Poor Charlie. Like poor Charlie. Everything he touches is gets sick with sadness. Like he thought, you know, allegedly you're still in love with Renee. She couldn't handle it, Bo couldn't handle it. He's what could have been is gone. He's never gonna have it.

Laura 1:34:25

Poor Charlie. Poor Charlie. That's good. That's good.

Bridget 1:34:28

So yeah, that's our playlist. I think we did well. It wouldn't be a talklet get hit episode if we weren't just saying just one more thing, just one more thing, about 50 times. But I was looking at our dear friend The Twilight Lexicon, and the information on the lexicon or like associated or similar lexicons, it was not that interesting. There's not that much to say about this book, despite the fact that we've been talking for almost three and a half hours. That's crazy. What was interesting were the comments. One said, I read all of the Twilight books, but this one was by far the weirdest. Like, what even is this? First, girls are not that straightforward and will never mention other girls that have a crush on their BF slash GF. I'm not against LGPT. And boys are not that much like girls. Seriously, Stephanie. And it took me so long to figure out what this comment could possibly be in reference to. And I think it's like when Edith is saying to Bo, oh, Lauren has a crush on you. She's gonna ask you out. Maybe Mackenzie? Yeah, whoever. Michaela, whatever her name is. Michaela has a crush on you. Taylor has a crush on you. She said there's 10 people that are in love with you. Oh my god. Yeah, I was waiting for her to say one of them's a teacher. Another one is a little comment thread. Someone said, it would be a nice gay human vampire love story. Another person says, someone should suspend your page because Edith is a girl, not a guy. Does that qualify for suspension? What rules am I breaking? And then this is my favorite one, but it's a little tricky without being able to see the truly outstanding spelling going on here. I'm actually gonna ignore this version and pretend I never saw it because the old version is way better. We're missing a T here. Because that if the guy is the vamp, then it's Alot better because of the gorgiose face, and that the girl should be the one to find out and be the gnossy one because it doesn't seem right to have the girl be the vampire that's gorgiose and mysterious, and that the guy should be the gnosy one and awkward one.

Laura 1:36:51

So I'll just stay with the I'll just stay with the old version. No one actually asked you. Gorgiose and mysterious.

Bridget 1:37:23

We don't always do this for bonus chapters, but I think we really need to do favorite characters, least favorite characters and lit or shit. Laura, who is your favorite character in life and death?

Laura 1:37:36

It's gotta be Ernest.

Bridget 1:37:41

Bless his cotton socks. I think my favorite character's Michaela. Oh, that's a good pick. Yeah, she was actually the only well characterized character. Okay, so least favorite. Who was your least favorite character?

Laura 1:38:01

Maybe Jos.

Bridget 1:38:07

Tell me why. That's shame-related. What an embarrassing name. Sorry to the Josses out there. You're listening to Smooth FM. And next up we have Joss. I think Joss is a good choice because, like, even though she has a terrible name, she's also a terrible vampire. Yeah. Very mean. Stop it. Naughty. What about you, Bridget? Um, Bo. Yeah. Well, I didn't see that coming. Bo sucks. It's so unimportant. I was gonna say, remember that time mum texted me that picture of that really scary clown doll and said, Would you want this clown from grandma's house? And it was so scary. And I said it to you and I was like, Why would I want this? I mean, I know it's something grandma had when I was growing up. His name was Bo Bo. And I thought that the whole time. Like I had a very insidious, like negative association with Bo. Anyway, sorry. Well, I mean, even without the clown. And now for the very last time in 2024, Laura, do you rate Life and Death by Stephanie Meyer Twilight Reimagined a 10-year anniversary special? Do you rate it lit or shit?

Laura 1:39:19

I'm still gonna rate it lit. You can't stop me. I'm not gonna stop you.

Bridget 1:39:27

I'm gonna rate it shit. Yeah, it's okay. It's okay.

Laura 1:39:31

You stand there where he stood. You will never be out of it.

Bridget 1:39:36

You know, like when you were sending me those messages about you finding new spots to be crying in Twilight, I was like, she's not gonna like this. She's gonna see this as nothing less than a hate crime. Slander. It's really offensive to my culture. And with that, we are closing the chapter on Talk Lit Get Hit for 2024. We are so happy to have had you along for the adventure, and we can't wait talk lit and shit in 2025. As always, you can have your say on what we read next year by keeping an eye on the link in our show notes and on our socials. Make sure you subscribe to the show, and if you want to be on the same page as us, follow us at talklit.get on Instagram and TikTok.