we asked for opinions... you chose violence - talk lit with us vol 3

this episode we once again sent out a signal begging for your hot takes, grievances and deepest secrets in the hopes of inserting ourselves into your personal lives and become the agony aunts you never knew you needed. you well and truly delivered and we have lots to dig into:

• the highs and lows of study and tbr piles
• books where the mc is an author
• rain = hot or not? (bonus mould chat included)
• great big beautiful life - too literary?
• a rage against trope title marketing
• silver elite controversy
• emerald fennel's curious casting of wuthering heights

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join talk lit, get hit podcast for deep dives into the hottest BookTok recommendations, trending contemporary fiction, and literary favourites! each episode features book discussions, spoiler-filled chats, and thoughtful literary analysis of novels everyone is talking about - from viral romance and fantasy to modern classics. whether you’re looking for BookTok book reviews, author interviews, or a virtual book club experience, out podcast is your go-to space for readers who love stories and want to explore them in depth.

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Transcript

Bridget 0:00

I definitely would prefer to be sitting on my veranda or at a coffee shop. A coffee. Coffee shop. Or in a coffee. Cause up again! I love coffee.

Laura 0:14

Don't talk to me before I've had my morning coffee.

Bridget 0:21

Hello and welcome to a talk lit get hit bonus chapter. The little book chats in between the big ones. We'll talk about reading, authors, and have discussions with people who, like us, can't shut up about books. We might get sidetracked and talk about literally anything else, but this is a bonus chapter we wrote just for you.

Laura 0:39

This episode, we once again sent out a signal begging for your hot takes, grievances, and deeper secrets in the hope of inserting ourselves into your personal lives and becoming the agony aunts you never knew you needed. You well and truly delivered, and we have lots to dig into. So without further ado, let's get digging.

Bridget 0:55

Starting off the episode, we have listener one who says, Finishing up my degree is getting in the way of reading my 15 plus TBR pile.

Laura 1:04

I feel like you'd be able to relate to that.

Bridget 1:06

Yes, and I was actually reminded of my feelings quite soon after I had finished studying when I was listening to our past episodes in preparation for our 50th celebration episode. And I just sounded like a broken person because I felt exactly the same way as you. I really hope you don't have long left because I feel like that pressure that you have is constant. Like it just feels never-ending and it feels all-encompassing. I don't know what you're studying for your degree, but I mean I've got bad news for you. I feel like it doesn't end when you get your degree and then you have to go into your chosen field of work. Um, I think it takes a while to develop some sort of work-life balance. I think after about um six or seven years in my job, I finally developed work-life balance and it feels great. I was trying to think of some strategies to help you, but I couldn't think of anything that didn't feel really condescending. And if someone had said to me, just carve out five minutes here and there, like just whenever you're like just in a quiet space, just pick up a book, I would have felt like punching them in the face. So, um, I mean, you just gotta keep going through.

Laura 2:12

Okay, I have no advice either. I really don't. I was thinking as well, because I work in education and I dish out that advice all day as if I'm not the worst student in the world. Like, don't leave your referencing to the last minute. Make sure you keep a track of your sources as you go along. It's hard out there, and I think it also takes a long time for that feeling of like guilt and the feeling that you should be doing something else to go away, which is unfortunate. I do often entertain the idea of studying again just for something to do.

Bridget 2:44

You don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. Stop it. And I think I've something to do. You have so much to do, you know. And I failed to do it. You wake up so early.

Laura 2:58

I don't know how you do it. Well, I'm here to say that that urge has been crushed because my husband has started studying and he's giving me secondhand stress because he's kind of like a by the seat of your pants. Like he was that kid that came to class with one scrap of paper and like a pencil shaving. Like, and his habits have improved a bit, but he's had two quizzes due so far. And I was trying gently to say, like, oh, what's your strategy gonna be? You know, are you gonna write out the due dates of all of your assignments? Are you gonna have a calendar? Are you gonna have post-it notes? Like, at least that. Like you've got to know when stuff's due, right? And he is not a planner. I don't really know what his strategy is, but it's not remembering dates. And so he did one quiz, but he did it for the wrong subject on the wrong day.

Bridget 3:49

Well, I mean, he's done it now.

Laura 3:51

He did do it, and you know what? Like, he climbed that mountain. But then last night as we were going to bed, it's like 10 o'clock, and he was like, shit. And he had another one, Jew. So he he did that quiz as well, thank goodness. But I think like even just the secondhand stress of watching him give that a go is enough to deter me.

Bridget 4:11

Yeah. Setting my Goodreads goal for a measly 10 books this year, I think has helped lift some of the pressure off reading. And I think having a TBR pile and having like a stack of books in the corner just staring at you all the time is a one-way road to yeah, feelings of guilt and stress about something that is like made up. Reading goals are made up. Maybe put the books in a cupboard. Don't look at them and burn them. Don't burn them. Oh, yeah. We don't want to go down that road. I'm joking.

Laura 4:43

Filter it.

Bridget 4:45

But you are the world's strongest soldier.

Laura 4:48

If you can dream it, you can do it.

Bridget 4:50

Yeah, that's true. Um, don't stop believing, soaring, flying, all of that usual stuff.

Laura 4:56

Our next listener says, I'm sick of reading a book where the main character is a writer. Now, I think I might have actually gone on the record on the podcast saying that I love this trope. I can't remember if I've just said that out loud or if I've thought it, but I don't necessarily hate this.

Bridget 5:12

You did. I can confirm you said it was free PD, a free little business advice for publishing a book.

Laura 5:20

Okay, well, thank goodness, because I was about to double down on that. So thank God I'm consistent because sometimes I just say stuff and I don't really know what's coming out of my mouth. Um, yeah, look, I studied creative writing at uni and I had aspirations of becoming a writer for a fair while before I realized that I have zero self-motivation and I don't really have any plots floating around in my mind, and it's just like a lot more work than I thought it was gonna be. I used to really like this because I don't necessarily feel that my degree equipped me to understand like the publishing industry or you know how to send out a manuscript or when you need an agent and that kind of practical stuff. So I used to really like it for that purpose, and it kind of felt a bit like reading a book of writing advice without having to read a whole nonfiction book of writing advice. On the flip side though, I think it can be lazy, but I think the context is important. Like, for example, in Yellowface, that was the whole plot, and it made sense for them both to be writers. But I don't know, like in other books, it just kind of feels like the author is just writing what they know, and that feels a little bit lazy. I would also say it's very excruciating when you have to read what they've written. I might have been a bit complimentary about it at the time, but in Beach Read, I hated so much reading their books at the end. That was awful.

Bridget 6:38

Yeah, like the butterfly tattoo on her left hip or something. Like I would agree with you about that because I can't think of a book where that has been done well, other than maybe the songs in the Hunger Games universe. I quite like them, but I once forced myself to read the Lord of the Rings series and had a bad time with that because of the songs.

Laura 6:58

So many songs.

Bridget 6:59

I don't like songs in books other than the ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, I think. So yeah, I agree. It is excruciating. I was wondering if this is possibly the 2020s update of the 2000s marketing girl cliche that we'd seen in movies like How to Lose a Guy in Ten Days or Suddenly 30 or other movies, I'm sure there's more, where they work at some glamorous magazine. Honestly, what a dream, what a goal.

Laura 7:26

Yeah.

Bridget 7:27

And I eat that up every time.

Laura 7:29

So I think uh this is a compelling argument, B.

Bridget 7:32

But I do have to say I haven't read too many, and I think by the time, like if we're talking about Emily Henry, by the time I got to Happy Place, I was pretty happy that she wasn't a writer because it was sort of starting to get a little bit old. I did read a book the other day though that was a screenwriter, and I thought, oh, this is a little bit different. So maybe I'm there with you. Maybe maybe I have that writer's fatigue as well.

Laura 7:57

I think often characters are written to be authors, but they could have been literally anything. Like it has absolutely no stakes in the plot of the story whatsoever, and that is a little bit fatiguing for sure. They're never writing.

Bridget 8:10

No, it's like Bridget Jones, like didn't matter that she worked in that publishing house. No, could it have been any job? Yes. Listener number three has a sizzling hot take, I think. And it's rain is stupid, and we shouldn't have to work if it rains. I am a big rain fan. Number one, rain stand here. I think this stems from growing up in a drought and also relying heavily on rainymood.com in high school to get through assignments. That's another good tip. Yeah, that is another good tip. Rainymood.com. I can't lie, I would definitely prefer to be sitting on my veranda or in a coffee shop ready to just sit in those vibes and you know be perceived as like reading a book or something.

Laura 8:59

Crack out a freshy. Yeah. An orange penguin classic.

Bridget 9:03

Yeah. Oh.

Laura 9:05

Yeah, look, lots to unpack here. I do also really love rain. Same in it for the vibes, in it for the lack of drought. Um, I think I was raised by a mother who loves rainy days as well, and a grandmother who loves rainy days. So I'm like well-versed in cracking out a BBC like Pride and Prejudice adaptation, cup of tea, warm blanket book, obviously. That said, it should be illegal to have to go to work when it's raining. I'm the first person. Like yesterday it started raining at work, and I was like, or early mark. You know, like it it's so bad for my productivity at work because all I can think about is not being at work. Another downside as well is frickin' mold. That has been happening so much. And I swear, like up until 2020, mold was not a feature of my life. No, I was like, what are these losers talking about? Yeah.

Bridget 9:58

What is mold? But I will say that with the recent crops of mold just appearing, um, I've been having conversations with like heaps of people about mold. And my mum was talking about the house that we grew up in, and she was like, Oh, it was just like it was always moldy. And I was like, was it?

Laura 10:15

Yeah.

Bridget 10:16

And so I was just living in this dream world where the house was like perfect and you know, living in idyllic conditions. But mum was like, Yeah, there's a mold everywhere. Like it was an old house, and it and I was like, Wow, it's so hard to see.

Laura 10:28

Yeah. I went to my mum and dad's house and I had just been getting rid of all of the mold.

Bridget 10:33

Sorry, a bit of a segue into mould chat here, but I had just been getting rid of all of the mold in my house.

Laura 10:39

And I think there's a certain kind that often looks like dust until you realize it's not. And on the right angle, I was catching it on some of mum and dad's like furniture and like mainly on the wooden stuff. And I kept being like, that's mouldy. Mold over there, more mold. It does make me feel good though.

Bridget 10:57

Cleaning out the mold because I feel like it's just me and like I'm a bad person because I've got mold on a bookshelf. But at least when you go somewhere else you see it.

Laura 11:04

Absolutely nothing to do with like personal upkeep. May the sports fall where they may.

Bridget 11:11

Okay, Edward Cullen.

Laura 11:12

Chill out. Our fourth hot take is from a listener who's dangled a titillating sentiment in front of our faces, like the most succulent carrot you could ever imagine. And we are but donkeys.

Bridget 11:28

Mules.

Laura 11:35

It says, Great big, beautiful life being too literary for the romance crowd. I feel it should say perchance at the end.

Bridget 11:44

Mayhaps.

Laura 11:45

So this is Emily Henry's latest book. Have you read it?

Bridget 11:50

No, it's been sitting on my table staring at me for weeks since it arrived in the post.

Laura 11:55

I also haven't read it, and I wish that I could have more of a well-informed opinion here, but I definitely have an opinion. It never stopped us before. So yeah, I haven't read Great Big Beautiful Life, but what I would say is this. Emily Henry is a woman in her early 30s. I'm not sure that her age is necessarily reflected in her readership. There's a kind of feedback we noticed and talked about a bit in our episodes on Happy Place and Funny Story that says that these stories are boring or not smuddy enough or that her friends were like too dull and had nothing going on for them.

Bridget 12:34

Um, but we found that they really aligned with our emotions and living in the past experiences.

Laura 12:46

As women in our 30s. Now, maybe that's not a nice commentary on ourselves. Maybe it's not a nice commentary on those reviewers. Make of that what you will. I don't know. I would not say ever that she's my favorite author, but for some reason I feel really willing to ride into battle for her on this subject because I think her writing has evolved alongside her age, and I just think that her readers are lagging a bit behind. So I've seen people saying that Great Big Beautiful Life is boring or it's a dupe of Evelyn Hugo, which I didn't love, so that kind of makes me determined to read it and enjoy it. Lots of people saying like they didn't get it, or it like it wasn't juicy. I'm sure there's validity to that point, but I'm choosing to take that feedback with a grain of salt.

Bridget 13:32

Yes, I also haven't read it, but I agree with everything you said, especially about Evelyn Hugo. Why are people so willing to die on the hill that Taylor Jenkins Reed is a good writer? Her books are basic as shit. They're interesting stories, but I think that a book written by Emily Henry will be infinitely more interesting than a book that Taylor Jenkins read. Well, right. I'm sorry, come for me if you want to, but I am yet to read one that I didn't finish and go, yeah, and like duh. Like just rubs the point. And they were roommates. Yeah. Wow. Shocking. I don't know how this became a slam on Taylor Jenkins. Neither do I, but I But that is the main criticism I've seen. Oh, she's just copying. As if it's not a basic story. Yeah. Old woman, rich woman, is gonna die. Wants her legacy written down, fight it out. I haven't read it yet, and I don't know if I foresee myself reading it in the very near future, because I've got quite a bit on. But I'm sure that when I read it, I will enjoy it for what it is. Our next hot take says, the more I'm on book talk, I want to just find books organically again. So over trope marketing. Trope marketing kills me as well. I think it's a spoiler when you see a post from an author or a reviewer or a publisher, I guess, and they say, Wow, newest enemies to lovers, one bed trope, found family, blah blah blah blah. I think it's a spoiler and it makes me less interested to read the book. I've been wanging on about this for a few episodes now, I think, and I agree. I think it's boring to just see the same things regurgitated again and again. I do feel for the authors who are writing these books and then having to market their book as just a trope.

Laura 15:18

Yeah, like ascribe a label to them.

Bridget 15:20

Yes, I feel like that's the problem. My problem lies within the publishing industry, not the author, but people do continue to eat it up. So is it ever gonna stop if people keep yeah, lapping that shit up?

Laura 15:31

We talked about this a bit in our anti-intellectualism episode, and I was trying to articulate something I don't think I really quite got there, but I was trying to say, like, if you like something in a book, if you like an aspect of a book, or even if you can't quite put your finger on what it is about the book that you enjoy, try Googling, you know, books like blah blah blah, because I think you get a richer experience of reading from pulling in this pool of books that are like thematically similar or similar in vibes, but not similar on the basis of like they hate each other and then they love each other or like freaking found family once again, or whatever. I'm struggling to articulate what the difference is, but I have read so many books, like for example, when I read A Little Life, I wanted books that left me with that same feeling. And I've read a number of books that were just as excellent, but not even remotely similar to A Little Life. And I don't really know how to articulate what that difference is, but I think it's like not a black and white thing that will make a book to your taste or not. We also heard Diana Reed speak on this a little bit as well, talking about signs of damage, which a lot of people have likened to the white lotus. Um, and I feel like when this was brought up in the discussion, I was kind of like, yeah, she's gonna hate this. And then she was like, Oh, you know, I mean, I could argue that it's wrong, but like I understand why people would assign that label to it, and if it brings more people to the books, like I get it. But yeah, exactly what you were saying, it seems to be a publishing problem, a marketing ploy. How would you say that you find books then?

Bridget 17:06

I was thinking about this, and I think that I don't often take recommendations from TikTok. I think it's quite rare that I do. And that's not because I think the people on TikTok have bad opinions or anything like that. I think that I need to be in the right frame of mind or headspace to be getting recommendations. And I'm also aware that once I start looking for recommendations, then I start adding them to goodreads, and then I'm worried that I'm spamming people with my like activity in the feed, and then I just spiral. So every few months, once I sort of run out of books on my one-to-read list, I might do a bit of a spree. I do mainly go onto YouTube and just watch like the 10 best books I read this year or something, and then there might be like two in that that I'm interested in. Add them in a bit of a frenzy, but I have started adding them onto StoryGraph because I am always worried about spamming people on Goodreads, which is so dumb and such a made-up problem to be worried about, but that's just where my head goes.

Laura 18:03

Everything goes on StoryGraph.

Bridget 18:05

Yeah, my TBR is only on StoryGraph. So, how about you? Where do you find your recommendations?

Laura 18:11

I think a lot of my recommendations come from just having a look around. I am the biggest advocate of judging a book by its cover, to be honest. And so I think a lot of my books come from scrolling through Borrowbox or Libby or going to the library and just picking up book covers that appeal to me and seeing if the blurb matches. I do find myself using Goodreads or like bookseller websites, or again on like Borrowbox and Libby and that kind of thing for the function that's like books similar to or readers who liked this also enjoyed type things. I have in the past saved a lot of videos on TikTok of book recommendations, but I almost never go back to them. And I actually find I'm most consistently let down by book recommendations from TikTok, as this show is like such a vast testament to. But I think Instagram works really well for me as well. I think there's quite a few creators that we follow or I follow on my personal account that have a really similar taste to me. So that's a good reliable source of recommendations. And I would also say you. You read a lot more than me, but overall you have a very similar taste to me. So often I find myself picking up something feeling really original, and then when I add it on Goodreads, I realize that you've read it and that's where I heard about it.

Bridget 19:29

That's so funny. It's kind of also good for you as well, because then you know which ones to stay clear of. Yeah. Because it's like we're probably gonna have the same opinion. So you don't need to read those uh those cowboy books that I read the other week. I will also echo just having a walk around the library because I did that quite recently, and it really brought me back to what I used to do every week when my mum would take me to the town library, and I would just walk around looking for any books about horses or um yeah, that was probably it really, horses. And just picking things up and having a look at the cover. Maybe the blurb, but the cover is what really gets me. Yeah, it's the way to go.

Laura 20:08

Having fun isn't hard when you've got a library card. It's true. Truer words have never been spoken before. Someone left us a message about something I think I'm gonna need a little bit of an explainer about. I think you're probably well versed on this, or a little bit better versed than I am. So the listener said, on threads, Silver Elite being problematic. That's our first thing to dig into. What the hell is this?

Bridget 20:35

So, Silver Elite is a newly released quote unquote dystopian romantic, and it's written by Danny Francis. And so people don't really know who this author, Danny Francis, is, but they are a little bit suspicious because a lot of money has been pumped into the marketing of this book. So there have been special editions, there's been foil edges, it was the book of the month pick for May. It has led to a lot of discourse online about the identity of the author. And so I guess you can think about doxing, is it right or is it wrong? But I think what people are trying to uncover is why is this previously unknown debut author already having this kind of reach or sway? I think we had this same sort of conversation when we recorded our Fourth Wing episode, because we were like, how does this book have this much hype? I'd never heard of her, you'd never heard of her. Turned out she'd written like 19 or 20 books at that point, but none of them had reached that same sort of height as Fourth Wing. But some of the theories include that the book has been written under a pseudonym due to the author's problematic and cancellable reputation. So maybe like Sarah J. Mass, Rebecca Yarris, Colleen Hoover, um, we know that J.K. Rowling has dabbled in a bit of tomfoolery in regards to author names before. Or it was possibly written by AI. Although in the US, AI output cannot currently be copyrighted. So that's the first level of this controversy. Like, who is this author? And why is this book reaching such a claim? Because the most common phrase I see when people are reviewing this book, like, turn your brain off and just read, tells me it's not good.

Laura 22:15

Sounds promising. Yeah.

Bridget 22:16

The second part to this controversy around Silver Elite is the fact that it is dystopian genre. So some of the quotes from the author include, I wanted a dystopian story that has all the grit and danger and tension, but also turns up the heat. And in a world where everything is on the brink of destruction, emotions run high and desire can be just as powerful as Fear or Fury. I wrote this book for readers like me, the ones who devoured books like the Hunger Games, but wished the romances were more front and centre. So basically Hunger Games. But make Cartness sexy. Oh my god, that's awful. And so there's lots of criticism because the focus of this book is on the romance and on the smart rather than the social. And political commentary usually featured in the genre of dystopian fiction. People are like, it's not dystopian, it's romantic. And let's chill out on the hunger games comparisons, please. Obviously, I haven't read it, and I don't know if I will, other than if we read it on the podcast. But oh my god. I mean, I'm always here for some sort of conspiracy. So like I think maybe, I don't know, maybe it's like written by a team of cancelable authors. So maybe like Sarah J. Mast, Rebecca Yarris, Colin Hubert, they're all in on it. Write a chapter, pass it on. Yes. That's the rumor I'm gonna start.

Laura 23:40

I love that. What if it's like George R.R. Martin? And they're never gonna get the book from me. I'm gonna write this shit instead.

Bridget 23:50

But if you have read it and if you have any theories, please do let us know. Please message us. Or you can send us an email. Our email is hello at talklitgeth.com, and our Instagram and TikTok is talklit.gethit. Always there if you need.

Laura 24:06

Our last sort of titillating questionslash talking point from a listener is that the Wuthering Heights adaptation is not faithful. I've been seeing a lot about this. At the same time, I don't feel too invested. I think I feel just a little bit disillusioned and checked out of the conversation, but I would love to know how you feel.

Bridget 24:24

I sort of surprise myself by how little I cared about this. Like on one hand, I do really love Wuthering Heights, but on the other hand, I don't love movies. So sort of indifferent. But I think it is funny to imagine Margot Robbie from Dolby, just near us, and Jacob Alordy from Nudgy in Brisbane trying to attempt a Yorkshire accent. I, for one, cannot wait to see them running around on the moors, you know, maybe chucking a bit a- whoop uh into the mix. I can't wait for that. And I will also say that I am a big Dakota Johnson persuasion stan. I thought it was so funny. There was no yeah, this is known the way that it was. I want to say modernized, but just sort of updated a little bit. Uh, I don't know. I thought it was quite charming and funny. However, I do think the claims that the movie has been whitewashed are obviously true because, as we know, Heathcliff is described as someone who has, I think, gypsy or Romani heritage, and so he has darker skin, and that's part of the reason why he is so ill-treated in the book, and so to cast this white man doesn't really make sense to me. I also did see the casting director say that it was just a book, which is a pretty wild thing to say about one of the record, one of the most like beloved books in the world, I would say. I did see quite a good comment from TV and film critic Gavia Baker Whitelaw, and she said, White Heathcliff and 34-year-old Kathy, and they both look like they belong on Instagram. I'm obsessed. Emerald Fennel does it again, and then in brackets, derogatory. Emerald Fennel is the director, and she's directed Promising Young Women, I think, in Solburn. And when this adaptation was first announced, I was a bit obsessed with the aesthetic that she posted. But I mean, I'm not well versed in the Emerald Fennel doing bad things lore, so maybe we need to look into that a bit more.

Laura 26:25

Yeah, I'm not that well versed in the lore of her doing bad things, allegedly, potentially allegedly, um, either. But I mean I did really enjoy both of those movies. So I was um yeah, I guess just like a bit bummed, bummed out by this casting announcement. I don't really have a lot of um stakes on this book though. I think I read it when I was like 16 and I was like, I love Wuthering Heights, but it's just one I've been meaning to revisit as an adult and never making it to. Really just seems like a missed opportunity, pretty misguided. I can understand why you'd be upset. I have seen a lot of people saying, What if they're decoy actors? And I think that's really the best that we can hope for at this point.

Bridget 27:09

Yeah, I can't even imagine them acting in a scene together.

Laura 27:12

No.

Bridget 27:12

It's very strange to me. I do know that Margot Robbie was a producer on both Promising Young Women and Saltburn. And I did see that she was excited to finally act in a film directed by Emerald Fennel, but I mean, I don't think I'm gonna go and see it because it just sounds pretty wild to me.

Laura 27:28

No, I'll watch it on streaming. I think they're both really great actors though. I just don't really want to see them together and I don't want them to be doing these roles.

Bridget 27:37

Although Southeast Queensland represent.

Laura 27:40

Well, like I don't know, like if I thought maybe she would do like a full sort of Baslerm and like set it in rural Australia type shit. I don't know, and like have them be like, Kathy, Heathcliff, but it's me, Kathy, I've come home. Out on the wily windy moors. You had a temper. Like my jealousy. How could you leave me? I'll meet you on the Warrigo Highway. Darren, lock your way. Eight in a row, eight in a row.

Bridget 28:24

Thank you so much to all of our listeners who made our day by sending in these submissions. Our next podcast book will fortunately or unfortunately be Credence by Penelope Douglas. Have your say on what we read next by keeping an eye on the link in our show notes and on our socials. Make sure you subscribe to the show, and if you want to be on the same page as us, follow us at talklit.gethit on Instagram and TikTok.