sky daddy by kate folk

our book this month is sky daddy by kate folk. as far as weird girl literature goes, you think it wouldn’t get too much weirder than being sexually attracted to a plane - but as we so often say on the show, we don’t yuck someone else’s yum, and so this episode, we are determined to get to the bottom of things.

sky daddy centres around linda, a woman who is obsessed with planes (in the most unhinged way) and believes it's her destiny to be united with one forever in a fiery crash. alongside it all, this is a book that claims to explore desire, fate, and the longing to be accepted for who we truly are.

this month on the podcast we discuss the elusive genre of weird girl literary fiction, our surprisingly relatable protagonist linda, our love of freaky-freaks and have the loveliest chat to resident weird girl lit expert, Clarissa aka @weirdgirlliterature on instagram.

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join talk lit, get hit podcast for deep dives into the hottest BookTok recommendations, trending contemporary fiction, and literary favourites! each episode features book discussions, spoiler-filled chats, and thoughtful literary analysis of novels everyone is talking about - from viral romance and fantasy to modern classics. whether you’re looking for BookTok book reviews, author interviews, or a virtual book club experience, out podcast is your go-to space for readers who love stories and want to explore them in depth.

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Transcript

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Laura 0:01

Hello and welcome to Talk Lit Get Hit, a podcast where we read viral books the internet won't shut up about and rate them lit or shit.

Bridget 0:09

We're your hosts Bridget and Laura, lovers of sad girl fiction and tragic endings, fearers of smut, urban fantasy, and the Who Did This To You trope. Join us as we peek apart all the books the internet loves and embark on a journey to figure out why.

Laura 0:23

As far as weird girl literature goes, you think it wouldn't get too much weirder than being sexually attracted to a plane. But as we so often say on the show, we don't yuck someone else's yum. So determined to get to the bottom of things, this episode we picked up Sky Daddy by Kate Folk. Bridget, hello, hello. Hello, hello, how are you?

Bridget 0:43

I'm really good. I'm in a great mood. How are you? I'm so excited. The sun is shining. It's spring. Is it? Podcast magic, it is spring. Flowers are blooming, birds are singing. There's a rainbow every morning. How has your month been? Well, my month's been pretty shit. I was sick for about three weeks. I know. Today's the first day that I've woken up feeling actually alive, so that's good.

Laura 1:13

I see why you're like, the sun's shining, there's birds in the sky.

Bridget 1:16

Being positive. I've been at home, not really doing anything. I can't read when I'm sick. Me either. It's a real setback. I know. I can't really do anything. And unfortunately, the catalyst of me being sick was a highlight of my month, which was the 10-year Pokemon Go anniversary. I was playing at the park with my Pokemon friends, and one of my Pokemon friends was sick and was coughing on me all day. Lock them up! Yeah. Super spreaders should be put in prison. Put a horse tranquilizer in their bodies. I haven't been sick properly like that for maybe I don't know, three years. Yeah, you discovered vitamin D and you never looked back. Wow, the sun. I'm cured. Tablets, medicines, supplements. And I haven't been sick like that for so long, and it god, it's been not long enough between drinks. It was awful.

Laura 2:14

You were so sick for so long, you sounded genuinely awful.

Bridget 2:17

Yeah, I had a week off work. Just generating waste and coughing up alone. It was just awful. But in that time, I discovered a few new hobbies. Yeah. The first hobby, bird watching. We went for little walks, stayed away from people because we're not super spreaders, played Pokemon at the park by ourselves. Um, with a new bird app, or new to me, which is called Merlin Bird ID. Oh, that sounds so good. So good. You can take a photo of a bird, or you can do like a step-by-step identification of a bird, or you can record their call and it will tell you what bird it is.

Laura 2:54

Oh, I love that.

Bridget 2:55

So good. So the main birds that I have been hearing, first one is brown honey eater. That's the one that's in my front yard.

Laura 3:02

Oh, delightful. I hear them in your voice messages sometimes. Yes, they're so beautiful.

Bridget 3:05

He's always there. Very small. Magpie lark, of course, carawang, butcher bird, rainbow lorikeet, king parrot. Oh is quite a common occurrence. Magpie, lapwings, the plovers at work, they have given birth. Three little tiny plovers. Multiplied. They're so cute. Galazalikeetes. It is a delight. What a treat.

Laura 3:27

Oh, that sounds so nice. Do you have binoculars?

Bridget 3:30

No, but I have actually been looking at the app. Get this right. You can buy binoculars that you link to the app and it uploads the images that you see onto the app. This is how we should be using technology. Yeah. It's incredible. The reason why I got onto this bird up is because of my other hobby that I've picked up during my time of being sick, and that is watching Clarkson's Farm. Okay. Him yeah. Historically, I have hated Jeremy Clarkson. Yeah, I think rightfully so. Well, you might think that. I'll tell you what though, after watching two seasons in like one day, I have come to realise that he's just like a professional rage baiter. I think he's actually quite an okay guy. He still really annoys me, but the way he like cares about his farm is really endearing. And he's like anti-Brexit. He is just trying to do his best for farmers, I guess. If you put a gun to my head, I'd say that he's okay. Alright. I really enjoyed the show. I was like hate watching it to start with, but then I just wanted to keep going.

Laura 4:40

I have heard it's quite good. Yeah, I'll well give you that.

Bridget 4:44

I'd heard it as well, and I was like, as if it could be good. I hate that man. I was wrong. It was enjoyable.

Laura 4:51

I mean, and I'm like Jeremy Clarkson controversy. What are they? I'm not sure. I could that could age poorly because a quick Google could reveal the severity of his crimes. I don't know.

Bridget 5:01

Tell you what, I've been Googling it a lot because I'm like so conflicted about what to think about this man. He's like assaulted a guy, like punched a guy. That's fine. He's constantly like saying cancelable things on the internet. But they had this girl on the show who is like a bird freak, basically, and she knew every call of every bird, and she was faster than the app, and Jeremy had the app, and he was like, Oh my god, she's faster than the app. And so then I was like, I need that app.

Laura 5:29

What is that app? I need to be the second best.

Bridget 5:33

So that's how I got onto the app, and that's basically my month.

Laura 5:38

Sounds like a great month, all in all. All things considered. Sickness aside, how about you? How's your month been? My month's been really nice. It's been kind of a quiet month. I have done an assortment of pleasant activities. Oh nice. Went to the markets, ate some pastries, saw a couple of rainbows, actually. Oh wow. I went to see a band that I absolutely hate. Against my bed judgment. Yeah, I will. I actually hate them so much. I've tried to edge around this subject um one too many times, but the band is hiatus coyote, which also, first of all, I hate saying that. It's so hard for me to wrap my tongue around. And a lot of people that I know and otherwise love and respect enjoy this band. And I get that they're like quite pioneering, and I think the band themselves are good. Like they're very sort of jazz funk, like I don't know. Yeah. You know how jazz can be. Yeah, yeah. And funk. Yeah, and funk. I think funk is um a bit of a red herring. I don't think that's quite right. But my main issue is with the vocalist. I just think she can't even sing the songs that she's written. Like, she's hooting and hollering, and these songs are not within her vocal capacity. Like, there's a couple of songs they have where I'm like, okay, this is in your range. And it's weird because like sometimes I hear a band and I'm like, you're not even the best person to be singing this song, technically. Well, it's like how Ringo is like not the best drummer in the Beatles, or whatever that famous saying is. But it's charming. Like, there's like a charm to the performance they pull off. Not in this case. I'm really not a fan, I hate it so much.

Bridget 7:19

And there truly is nothing worse than being at a concert of a band you don't like. Like, I've had to go to many with Brian because we have very different music tastes. And it's just you're standing there surrounded by freaks.

Laura 7:34

Well, we were surrounded by freaks, let me tell you. There were two couples on either side of us constantly making out. One was this tall, spindly couple, and the girl was like latched onto this man's hip, like she'd climbed him like a tree. Like a hip bone. Yeah. Yeah. She was like hooked onto him for the duration of the concert making out. Eyes to the front. Thank you.

Bridget 7:56

I thought you meant they were making out while both their eyes were on the stage. And I was like, what?

Laura 8:03

Like that actually I'd call the police. I wouldn't even like these these are not human. Whatever's happening. Cyborgs, yeah. Like when you drew a dog and you don't know where the eyes go. Yeah, yeah. Or a horse. Famously, yeah. Everybody knows those days. Anyway, that sucked, but it was a great use case for my loop earplugs. Oh, true. I still need to get some. Do you have a discount link? Like a photo code? But loop if you want to hook me up. Yeah. I mean give Laura 10 a go. It might work. The last thing is that I've been trying to get back into film photography because I decided that I needed a hobby. And I feel like when I say that, film photography sounds like, you know, hashtag my photography album on Facebook or whatever. It's just taking photos with a film camera. There's no like skill or prowess involved, no artistry here. Wind it up, click it, done. Yep. And hope for the best, honestly. But um I did get four roles developed. I have an assortment of film cameras I've collected over the years from op shops and whatnot. And when I thought, okay, maybe I'll give this a go again, boldly opened the backs of all of them, thinking there was no film. There was film in all of them. Um, but the roles turned out okay overall, and so now I feel empowered to keep going. It is such a delight getting a role of film back. So exciting. And it's just like, how does that work? Like, how is the quality of photo so good?

Bridget 9:34

I don't understand how anything works. I mean, you're asking the wrong question. I listened to a podcast the other day explaining how IMAX works. Don't even bother explaining shit to me, honestly. Yeah. I was like, I don't understand this magic. Yeah. This is shit that we shouldn't be seeing. We have gone too far. What do you mean there's little tiny crystals on the film reel? I don't want to know about that. I don't even know if that's right. I can't remember. Actual magic. It is actual magic. How did someone like back in the day standing in a field of dirt and grass? How do we have shit like IMAX and film cameras now?

Laura 10:12

Where did that come from?

Bridget 10:13

I don't know.

Laura 10:14

TV, radio? Radio fucks me up. Sorry, I can't say that. Radio F's me up. Sometimes I'll be listening to the radio in the car and then I have a little like, ah! The voices.

unknown 10:33

Where are they going from?

Laura 10:35

Crash my car. They tell me to crash my car on the airwaves. Anyway, it's been a good month. What about reading? Did you manage to fit in any good books on the days where you weren't sick?

Bridget 10:52

The first book I have to recommend was an ARC that we received. It's called Strange Girls by Savat Haseen, and this was so fantastic. I was reading reviews comparing it to The Idiot by Elif Batumin. So, you know, say less. I will get on that straight away. It had a really interesting format. It was told between two perspectives and also two timelines. So it was telling the story of college in I think the early 2000s, early to mid-2000s, but then also the present day. But they were told from the perspective of different people. And it just had that obsessive, psychotic female friendship. Is it friendship? Is it is it something more? Yes. Who knows? Kind of vibe that I am very drawn to. And it was heavy on the looking for Alaska Manic Pixie smart girl dream girl vibe. At some point I was like, I think I might have to go back and read this again and take note of all of the like books and films and like music that they're talking about so that I can go and read and listen to it and watch all of these things and become cool, like these characters. I loved it so much. They were in some sort of writing program at I think an all-female university on the outskirts of London, and they lived in this like old cottage. There were four of them, but the two main characters were just you know revolving around each other, and then they've had some big falling out, and maybe ten years into the future now, one of them's married. Um, she's about to publish a book, and the other one is sort of just fumbling her way through life. Perfect, living a very bohemian lifestyle, but not very happy about it either. Second book that I read, and I actually finished this on the day that the sickness really hit, so I was like, This is my parting gift from the world. Uh, and it was Sophie Standing There by Meg Mason. This was sent to us by HarperCollins. Was so excited when I opened up the package because I loved Meg Mason's book Sorrow and Bliss a few years ago. I read it and it was based on the cover and nothing else. I was expecting it to have the same heartbreaking and just depressing vibes, like absolutely distraught after reading it. But I found this book to be quite heartwarming. Themes of loneliness and like finding a place to belong. Just quite a cozy book. Oh, I'll for sure have to take that home. Yeah, it's right there waiting for you behind you. The third great book that I read this month was Mother Mary Comes to Me by Arundati Roy. I listened to this as an audiobook. And actually, I have to say, I've been very light on the audiobooks this year. I haven't really listened to very many, but I'm glad that I did listen to this as an audiobook because I love the way Arundadi Roy speaks. It's very soothing, very emotional in parts, like especially at the end when she's wrapping up the story that was quite devastating. It was a great book. I loved reading about her life and her difficult relationship with her mother. And she just seems like the coolest person, doesn't she?

Laura 13:54

So smart, so articulate. Crazy life. Such a crazy life, and such an interesting memoir that, like the god of small things, revealed so much about India's history that I just am so ignorant to. Yeah. That's about it for me. How about you? What have you been reading? I've had a great reading month. I haven't read a lot, but everything I've read has been so good. Probably the most exciting development for me is that as a longtime hater of Deborah Levy, I finally get it. Yay! Oh my god, I'm so happy. You don't have to get rid of all those books. No, I've been I'm so included. This is the best feeling in the world. That's all I ever yearn for. I'm in on the joke. Finally, my conjunctivitis is gone. I can walk. Go to the factory. This is great news. So I read The Cost of Living by Deborah Levy. It was one I picked up on a recent op shop bender, and I found the cost of living, and then I got another one that has a blue cover. And I mean, I I'll be real, I bought them for the cover alone, thinking, well, it's two bucks, like who knows? And so this was kind of like a fragmented memoir following the years after the end of her long-term marriage. It's just like musings on love, on grief, um, talks about the death of her mother. In this period of time, she's moved out with her daughters into like a pretty, grim sounding London apartment. And then she also talks about this shed that she moves into that was also just a real vibe as well. Like, I love so much any sort of character that provides me with something niche and really specific to aspire towards. So in this book, apparently Deborah Levy is like well known in some circles for always constantly wearing a string of pearls around her neck. Oh, and just a glass in the nice touch. Like, should I wear pearls? Or she goes to the market and she comes home with two like tangellos or something random in her bag. And I'm like, yes, I should get into tangellos. I'm like, and she talks about uh setting up shop in this garden shed that belongs to like an elderly friend of hers that was her late husband's writing shed. And she moves in there in the middle of winter. She talks about the apples falling from the tree onto the roof of the shed. She's got this like oil heater, a wooden chair with a fur thrown over it. She's like sharpening pencils, she's got stacks of paper and manuscripts. And I'm like, that is just such a vibe. That's exactly who I want to be. Yes. I had a great time reading it. I felt like I constantly had my finger like crooked under my chin. Like, yeah, that's exactly so true, Deborah. Debbie, you get me. Slay. I didn't realize it was a part of a series, so I have the blue book at home, and I recently purchased the red book, whatever it may be called, from Scrumptious Reads, which is an independent bookstore in Brisbane. I have really been lapping up the trending contemporary fiction this year, and another on that list that I enjoyed so much was Fruit Fly by Josh Silver. This was absolutely batshit insane. I think it takes Yellowface and possibly amps it up a notch. I don't know because Yellowface was crazy. But this book was absolutely a direct call out to a little life, and I'll I can I'm okay with that. You've evolved. Yeah, I get it. It's kind of a I'm awake. Underneath it all, I'm sensing maybe I'm not okay with it. Yeah, I'm fine. It's good. Say whatever you want. You can hear me. But this is sort of a satirical book about a wealthy white woman who's an author trying to free herself from the shackles of writer's block by stalking a young, gay, homeless addict and sex worker. Right. For for a bit of inspo. Yeah, you know, right. So, like when that's the starting point of the novel, you can kind of, I think, pick up the vibe of how crazy it's gonna get from there. I really enjoyed it. So moving on to talking about the reason we're here, Sky Daddy by Kate Folk. Bridget, I know this is a book you've read before, so I'd love to know how you are feeling about a reread.

Bridget 18:30

The first time I read this book, I read it on a plane. Three. Luckily, it was on my Kindle. Uh, so the you know, the secret shame was mine, mine to hold inside in in my two hands. That's such a take five, or that's life heads. Yes, it really is. My secret shame on the plane. My secret plane shame. Um, I did feel like I was tempting fate. I didn't realise it was about plane crashes before I got into the book. Nevertheless, I persisted with reading the book and I had a great time. I talked about this a little in the Eat Pray Love episode, and I just found it delightful. I love reading about freaks. I was unexpectedly charmed by this book. I thought it would be more of like a wild ride, but starting the reread, I was worried that you would not like it, and I would be seen as the laughing stock of the podcast. You go stand in the corner, you're a freak, you're sexually attracted to planes. Why are you reading this shit? Everybody gather around. We're gonna throw on lunch boxes, get your tomatoes. So that's what I was worried about. But I was excited to visit an old friend. How about you?

Laura 19:50

Yeah, I was really excited to read this, and honestly, I thought that I probably would really like it based on your simple review, three words long. I love freaks. But that also stressed me out a little bit because I do find the books that I enjoy quite challenging to talk about for whatever reason. Same. That's why my review was three words long. Answers revealed one year on. Yeah. I've had time to think about it and then forget about it and then read it again. I kind of was a little worried that I'd be exposing myself because I think I profess to love like challenging, murky, strange literature. But I did worry this might be a little bit too much. A little bit too wacky.

Bridget 20:35

The seatbelt sign is on, and it's time to leave the episode if you don't want to hear spoilers for Sky Daddy by Kate Folk. While we're making announcements, if at any point throughout this episode you wish to leave a five-star review, please press the overhead button and you'll be boosted through the podcast charts.

Laura 20:51

Thank you. Content warnings for this episode include discussions of sexual content, suicidal thoughts, death of a parent, grief, sexual harassment, and aviation accidents. To outside observers, Linda's life might seem drab. Weekdays she earns $20 an hour moderating comments for a video sharing platform, then rides the bus home to the windowless room she rents in a garage on the outskirts of San Francisco.

Bridget 21:18

But on the last Friday of each month, she indulges her true passion, taking Bart to SFO for a round-trip flight to a regional hub.

Laura 21:26

Linda's secret is that she's sexually attracted to planes. Their intelligent windscreen, sleek fuselages, and powerful engines make her feel a way that no human lover ever could.

Bridget 21:37

She believes her destiny is to someday marry one of her suitors by dying in a plane crash. A catastrophic event that would unite Linda with her soulmate plane for eternity.

Laura 21:47

Linda is used to hiding her true nature, but when her co worker Karina invites her to a quarterly vision forward brunch, Linda sees a chance both to get closer to her workfriend and to nudge the universe on behalf of her dad.

Bridget 22:00

However, as the vision boards seemed to manifest items more quickly and more literally than Linda had expected, the carefully balanced elements of her life begin to spin out of her control. And she must choose between maintaining the trappings of normalcy or launching herself headlong toward her greatest dream. Straight off the bat, what an accurate blurb. Finally, if I'd read the blurb on the plane, I would have known it was about plane crushes. So rich of me to be like, ah, all blurbs are wrong, and then not even read them.

Laura 22:31

Well, no, but that's built on a foundation of mistrust. I have been let down in the past every time.

Bridget 22:38

Systematically led astray. Okay, Laura, I would love for you to put me out of my misery. How did you feel about Sky Daddy by Kate Folk?

Laura 22:45

I loved this so much.

Bridget 22:47

Oh, thank goodness for that. Yeah. I can leave the corner now, you can put your tomatoes away.

Laura 22:56

I feel your anxiety because I was obviously carting this around with me everywhere.

Bridget 23:01

Yeah.

Laura 23:01

Reading it in the break room, had it on my desk, and multiple people were like, what's that book you're reading? Obviously has quite an intriguing title. Yes. Uh, and then to have to explain, oh, it's a book about a woman who's sexually attracted to planes, but like, no, ha ha ha, not like that. Not in that way, but kind of that way. No, it's actually so relatable. But like, no, not like that. It was great.

Bridget 23:27

I had a great time during this reread. I felt just as charmed by it as I did the first time.

Laura 23:31

I think it's one of the best books I've read this year.

Bridget 23:34

Yeah, I really enjoyed it.

Laura 23:35

And that's the episode. Thank you for listening. We'll see you next time. So the theme or the genre of this episode is weird girl litfic or literary fiction. I can't actually remember what we said. Something about being weird and a girl. But I think to me, this is kind of like a hard to define, elusive, sort of like new genre of fiction. What do you think?

Bridget 23:59

Yeah, and I find it quite hard to categorize which books deserve to be given the title of a weird girl fiction. When I was looking at my list of books that I've read and trying to decide which ones I would like to recommend for this episode, I was like, it's weird, but is it weird? Yeah. And it's like there's no parameters, I guess, for it, which makes it harder to define.

Laura 24:21

Yeah, like one I see pop up on lists quite often is the Belgiar. And I'm thinking, is it weird or does it just talk about mental health? I think that is a theme for a lot of these books. Like a lot of the ones that I see on lists are mainly about mental health and struggles. Often centered around like a pretty unconventional, probably unhinged, messy female protagonist. Uh, and I found like at least in the ones in my list where I thought, yeah, that probably fits a bill. There was a kind of dark, surreal undercurrent.

Bridget 24:56

I think a lot of the themes explored in these books, like themes of loneliness, themes of belonging, themes of struggling with your mental health, or, you know, maybe being self-conscious or struggling to fit in with society's expectations, are things that normal people struggle with, but they have just been expanded into that weird girl sort of realm. So I th I think they're quite relatable because although people aren't out there that I know of being sexually attracted to planes, I think there's lots of feelings in them that readers can connect with, which I think is what makes them so enjoyable.

Laura 25:31

Yeah, I agree with what you're saying. I think often those more outrageous or absurd sort of elements are like almost a metaphor. I guess an example I could think of is Bunny and Rouge by Mona Award. Like some weird shit goes down in those books, but at the heart of them are characters uh trying to understand their relationship with their mum, problems with body image, like trying to find a community and sense of belonging, really beautiful stories of friendship as well. But uh yeah, also as well grieved. Yeah. We were once asked by a listener if we had any recs that fit in this genre, and I sort of think we were struggling to come up with some, but have you thought of any more you might add?

Bridget 26:12

Yeah, I found a few books that I think fit the bill quite well for weird girl fiction. So first one that I read that would probably fit into this is Boy Parts by Eliza Clark. I read this quite a few years ago now, and I think that was quite shocking at the time because it was the first one I'd read. It was quite eye-opening for me as like a gateway into this kind of fiction. Since then, I have also read Eliza Clark's other book, Penance, and I really enjoyed that one as well. Big Swiss by Jenny Vegan. This is a good one. Lap Vona by Otessa Moshveg. I think she is often tatted as like one of the big dogs in the weird girl fiction world. I remember reading Lap Vona and I was very unsettled by a lot of things that were going on in that book. Concerned. Uh concerned, had a lovely time regardless. Paradise Rot by Jenny. Piss novel of the year.

Laura 27:03

Jenny Fall. Jenny Fahl. I'll see you in court. King Piss Tribunal. King Pisser. Big Dogs in the Piss World.

Bridget 27:13

Oh, oh. Pizza Girl by Jean Kyong Frazier. This is about a young girl who works as a pizza delivery driver. She's pregnant. She's got a boyfriend. The mother and the boyfriend are very excited about the baby. She is not excited about the baby. She meets this woman who orders a weird pizza for her son. Um, because the son's just a little bit. Yeah. And she takes the pizza to this woman's house and just becomes obsessed with this woman. Um, it's only a short book. We've all been there. It's a wild book, yeah. Her Body and Other Parties by Carmen Maria Machado. It's a collection of short stories. Some of them are pretty wild. And I also thought of Our Wives Under the Sea by Julia Armfield. That is a spooky, unsettling, beautiful book that is also weird.

Laura 28:00

How about you? In my show notes, I said, Ah, I guess we'll list some weird girl lip fig. Although I don't think I have anything to add. And then I just kept looking, and turns out I've actually read a lot that I think falls into that category. The big dog herself, as you mentioned at the top of the list, and probably my gateway to the genre, My Year of Rest and Relaxation by Otessa Moshfeg. But I also read Eileen and Death in Her Hands, both of which were excellent. Another big wig in this genre is Melissa Broda, and I read The Pisces and Milkfed quite early on in the game. I Hope This Finds You Well by Natalie Su, All Fours, Miranda July. I think a lot of Japanese translated fiction fits perfectly into this. Sayaka Marata is a pretty prolific author of freaky books, and Convenience Store Woman and Life Ceremony are two that I've read by her that I think fit perfectly. All the Lovers in the Night by Miyako Kawakami, Vladimir by Julia May Jones, The New Me by Halle Butler, Night Bitch by Rachel Yoda, My Husband by Maud Ventura. I could go on. There's a lot in this list, but uh, you know, I hope you were taking notes. Yeah, because we were going fast.

Bridget 29:13

Hot and heavy. Yeah!

Laura 29:19

We'll put them on Instagram. As we recently discovered in our Outlander episode, often having a third-party expert opinion is very lovely.

Bridget 29:32

Who would have thought listening to the two people have the same opinion about everything could get boring sometimes?

Laura 29:37

Even to us. Even to us. And we're obsessed with ourselves, clearly. So for this episode, we thought that we would head straight to the source. And have a chat with Clarissa, aka Weird Girl Literature, on Instagram. Clarissa, thank you so much for chatting with us today. We said that we needed to head straight to the source, and we're better to head to than Weird Girl Literature.

Bridget 30:03

Thank you so much for having me.

Laura 30:07

Yeah, by the way, this is how you're finding out that we've positioned you as the expert. No pressure. You're gonna blow them away.

Bridget 30:16

Update your resume now.

Laura 30:18

Literally. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Who are you online? Who are you every day?

SPEAKER_00 30:26

So my name is Clarissa. I am yeah, weird girl literature. I love a weird book. I love a weird book, I love a weird woman. I run a book club and I just, yeah, I love inspiring people to read. That's pretty much it. Amazing.

Bridget 30:38

So this episode and this month, we are all about weird girl literary fiction. We feel like the term has exploded on book talk and bookstagram over the past couple of years. We just talked about it a little bit in the episode, and something that we kind of discovered was that we don't really have consensus on what it actually means or like what the criteria is. Yeah. So if someone asked you what is weird girl litfic, what would you say as the source?

Laura 31:05

The oracle.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

It's so broad, and it is. It's like a little bit different for everyone. For me, like it's almost like a like a combination of like feminine rage, psychological horror, body horror. You're like imperfect, unlikable female main character. That's kind of like your starting point, and everything from there is like it's fake game. It doesn't have to be one thing, it could be lots of different things at the same time. It's like it's it's not your normal like run-of-the-mill, like it's like when I think about it, it's like the complete opposite end of the spectrum from like your like 2012 One Direction kidnapped me. I'm putting my messy hair in a bun. Like, it's the complete opposite of that.

Bridget 31:39

Mum sold me to One Direction, yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

That's like she's messy and we love her for that.

Laura 31:44

Yeah. I feel like it really is an antidote to that kind of cookie-cutter One Direction Bride novel that we know and love.

Bridget 31:54

Yeah, and I like how you said 2012 because it's kind of the antidote for like 2026 fiction as well, where it's like tiny girl meets big man and they play a sport.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

It comes in cycles. Yeah, it does.

Laura 32:09

Do you remember the book that kind of hooked you into this genre?

SPEAKER_00 32:14

I do. So I read A Touch of Gem. I was in like a reading slump, I hadn't picked up a book for ages. I kind of tried to kind of get back into reading in 2021, but I was reading a lot of like the book talk romance, like your Colleen Hoover's. And I'm like, this isn't for me, this is good, but it's not for me. So I kind of like put the books down, and then I was in Melbourne and I saw this at a like a bookshop. And I was like, hmm, okay, she looks good. And it sat on my shelf for two years, and I was doing like quintessential Gen Z, like, I need to get off my screens and delete it on my social media. And I'm like, Well, what am I gonna do now that I'm not doom scrolling? And this was sat like for my bookshop. I'm like, okay, you know what? We're we're gonna get into this. And I've just I read it cover to cover in one sitting. If you haven't read it, I highly recommend. I've not read that, no. It is so gripping, and it's just the writing is beautiful. That was my gateway drug into weird girl lit.

Bridget 33:06

A lot of the time, as well, with these books, the covers are always just phenomenal, they're just so interesting, and it makes you think, what is going on in this book? I and I love that.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Yeah, I I unfortunately do judge a book by its cover. Yeah, yeah. 10 out of 10 times. Stunning, stunning.

Bridget 33:21

I mean, it wouldn't be a job, like you wouldn't be a cover designer if it wasn't important.

Laura 33:26

Exactly. And yet some of the covers.

Bridget 33:31

What about a book that you think deserves to be on like in the canon? Like maybe something that's underrated, you don't hear people talking about it, never makes it onto the lists. Do you have a book that you would recommend that is a little bit more underground?

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Probably honestly a touch of gen. I haven't seen really anyone on like book talk or like bookstrichro talking about this one, and like she is that girl.

Laura 33:52

I've just had a look and a touch of gen is on my want to read list, allegedly, at some point in time. So consider it bumped up.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Yeah. Highly recommend. Oh. So this one is translated. It's called Dire of a Void. It's essentially about like a woman who in Japan who's working a job, she's not loving it, she fakes her pregnancy because she's feeling lonely and she's like, ooh, like I need some time off to get a little bit of attention. Awesome.

Bridget 34:16

Yeah, I've read that one. I really liked that one as well.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Oh, worry doll. This one just came out like very, very recently. Melbourne author, support local, we love. And yeah, it was really, really good. Also, sapphic. We love that. Um, and again, kind of incorporates those themes of like like weird girl is the base, but then it's like psychological horror. Like, yeah, what is real, really, really good. But this one is new. I feel like I feel like she's gonna blow up. Great. We're here before before it blows up.

Laura 34:43

I yeah, here before it was cool. This is why we called you. Yeah, yeah. You're the source. So I feel like we had a very sort of similar reading journey. Bridget and I were big readers throughout our lives, yeah, and then you know, dipped off as the pressures, the existential dread of adulthood weighed down on us. And then went through that post-COVID like, what am I doing with my life slump? And got back into it through those book talk books, like some of which we can reflect upon and admit maybe not right for me. But like it's just such a nice feeling to end up at this point in time with these books that are disguised as something freaky or silly, but actually do deal with like such deep themes around grief or identity or connection. It's just I love them so much. With that in mind, when we were talking to you about this episode, we said we were gonna discuss Sky Daddy, and you said it's one of your faves. Tell us a little bit more about that.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

I love her. It is just so I bought this book and I had a trip like booked to Sydney. So I'm in Brisbane trip to Sydney. I'm like, I'm only reading it on the plane. I am only reading this book on the plane, the way that it was meant to be read. I did the exact same thing. Yeah, it was just and even like for Weird Girl, this is weird. But it was like weird in the best way, because it's like obviously reading the blurb, you're like, What? But then actually reading it, you're like, actually distracts. This makes a lot of sense. Like, maybe I'm not obsessed in planes is the same way as Linda, but you know, Linda's live your truth. But it's like not like liking your job, but sort of not knowing where you're going, like these themes of just kind of like I don't want to say hopelessness, but that kind of like treading water type bit.

Bridget 36:25

It's and like not knowing how to fit in and looking at other people and seeing what they're doing, trying to copy them. It's so relatable in such a freaky package.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Like when she was trying to fit in for the mood boards. I was like, have I ever done that to that degree? No, but we've all been there. Like it's just like it's a very extreme example of it.

Bridget 36:44

Yeah, there's a review on the back of my copy that says wonderfully weird and worryingly convincing, and that is how I felt reading it the entire time. It is so worryingly convincing. It's like, am I attracted to planes? I love, I love her, I love this girl, and I get it, I get everything she says. She's it's it's a sweet book. It's so good.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Like this sat with me for a while, and I didn't think a book about wanting to marry a plane would, but it's like there's the themes in it were kind of like interwoven in a way where I was like, wait a minute, like, what do I want to marry a plane now too? Like, that's that's that's my soulmate.

Laura 37:20

I think there was a scene where she's trying to express how she feels to Karina, and I caught myself, it's like, why does my face hurt? And I realized I had this like stressed grimace, like, you've gotta listen to her, Karina.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

She needs to be your friend. Karina is like one of my favorite side characters in a book that I've read this year. She was so beautifully written. Her and her like lucifreak fiance blanking on his name. Anthony, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Like I know six of those couples in real life, and they the the man always subbed.

Bridget 37:56

They're always doing some variation of selling a t-shirt with a frog smoking weed on it.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Yeah.

Laura 38:02

Always. Going back to the little reviews at the start of the book, there was one that I really enjoyed that said, thanks to novels like Sky Daddy, the right to staggering strangeness, moral messiness is finally being extended to female characters too. And I think there is, like you were saying earlier, how like it covers off on themes of female rage. There's just such a craving for these like messy, obsessive, unlikable female characters right now. I was wondering if you have any thoughts on why that may be.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

It's just like in like lip fix for so long. And they're wrong, I love them. But the film on my hair is always perfect. I'm not perfect, I'm messy. I don't want to read about how your hair cascades down your back and perfect curls every morning. I wake up and I look crazy, like it's sky dating. Obviously, like I was saying before, have I ever done anything as wacky as Linda? No, but I've been in that situation, and it kind of makes me feel less insane. It's like maybe I'm not nuts because she's worse. Yeah, she's fully nuts. Shout out to Linda. Deeper, love her.

Bridget 39:04

Yeah. I think you're right, and I think like for so long, there's just been this expectation driven by living in a patriarchal society of just being perfect, like never having a hair out of place, being the model wife, the model mother, the model daughter, everything. And I think these books are just I don't know, showing that, oh my god, women are humans too. Headline shocking. Um, women have feelings, women have emotions, and I think that's what I like about it as well. It's it's not all just like one size fits all.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Yeah, but women can be angry, women can do things, and it can be messy and it can be ugly, but that's what life is.

Laura 39:45

Sky Daddy really reminded me of I Hope This Finds You Well by Natalie Sue. Have you read that one?

SPEAKER_00 39:51

I haven't. She's sitting on my shelf somewhere, but I haven't read it yet.

Laura 39:55

She's waiting. So enjoyable. In both of those books, and I think in a lot of books in this genre, the female protagonists take it to the darkest place. Like they hit the lowest of lows. Linda's flight binge in this is so graphic. Like there's always an element of extremely poor hygiene that I find so visceral in these books. Yeah, always. But what I love is that for the most part, there's always someone there for them on the other side. Like, it's like you can go so dark and so far down and reveal these horrible, ugly things about yourself, yeah, but you're still not beyond redemption. And I think that's like what's so great about them.

Bridget 40:36

Yeah, and it's giving a bit of hope for humanity as well.

unknown 40:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Skydating was move, but like the female friendship is just so beautiful, it is so lovely to read. Like they for lifers, like it's the there is always like a side character who just like puts in a shift that's like, I know that you're on a flight, but I I've got you, girl. Like, we see each other, and I love that.

Bridget 40:56

Yeah, and I'm happy to go down in flames with you. And I can't remember the guy's name. Is it Simon? She goes on the date with Simon and then she gets him a job at the moderation place as well. Undoubtedly, he's a loser, but even he is kind and even he is willing to help Linda. And I don't know, like they form this kind of weird friendship between them and Karina as well, and I think it's just it's quite a hopeful book overall. And even Dave, like he's spiralling in his own way, but he just joins in and I don't know, tries to better himself.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Yeah, I kind of grew to love Dave. I'm like, Yeah, yeah, it's like you kind of suck, but you're like you're putting in the work, and like I see him.

Bridget 41:37

He's taking flights, he's trying to find himself, he's trying to, you know, reignite his passion for life, reconnect with his daughter. It's just all a very heartwarming book. A big draw card for me in reading in general is No Thoughts, just vibes when it comes to the plot. Plots often stress me out. Um too many things, too many things are happening, and I'm I don't want them to happen. I just want to be hearing about the vibe and the vibe of the thing. How much do you think weird girl literature in particular is about plot versus voice? And do you have a preference for plot or are you more vibes-faced?

SPEAKER_00 42:15

I think both of literature, because again, it's so broad. Like there are certainly some like the eyes are the best part. I would I'm probably thinking I would consider that weird girl fiction. It is like body horror and the stakes are quite high. Or it's something like my year of rest of relaxation, or like everyone I know is dying. It is just vibe. And I I love just vibe. Like I love reading a book, putting it down and going, nothing really happened, but it was really good.

Bridget 42:42

Yeah, if someone asked me what happened in this book, I couldn't tell them anything, but it was great.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

She kind of bedroded for like 300 pages.

Laura 42:50

Unfortunately, that makes up the majority of what I read. And so when people ask me what I'm reading, my stock standard answer is, uh, it's just like it's pretty much like a book about a girl, like she's doing something, and yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

My partner's always like, So what are you reading? And I give him a title, he's like, So what's it about? I'm like, bad things happening to bad men. Yeah.

Bridget 43:12

A woman turns into a dog.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

Like that's that's kind of it. That's the whole thing. Yeah. Tell us more about your book club. I love a book club. I I yearn for bookish community, and I found there were so many Brisbane ones, and obviously, I love a romance from time to time. It's not my normal genre though. So I didn't love having to commit to reading a new one every month because I'm like, I'm kind of like burnt out. And saying that heated rivalry thoroughly enjoyed that, and I didn't read that for book club. So I kind of wanted like a place where you could read like more of your like, yeah, like less plot, more vibes, stuff that you typically wouldn't see on like Oprah Wumpy's book club or like the like Reese with a spoon book club, which again, they're all good books, but there's lots of like space for that. Because I'm doing my like market research, I'm on the floor, like, what can we read? I will say cover with four options a month is really hard. We feel Yeah, yeah. Especially because there's a lot of different preferences. But yeah, I wanted a space where you could kind of read stuff that was like outside of the norm and to connect with more people that kind of read Weird Girl Lit. Because like it's a massive thing online, but you don't really see many. Like I went to like a book event. Shout out to the book Porter Womba, lovely store. And like I was on the bus with like all these other like bookish girlies. So I love an adore, like we all follow each other on Booksstagram. And I was like the only one that read Weird Girl Lit. So I'm like, oh like I need I need more Weird Girl Lit baddies.

Laura 44:30

Big agree. I think it's a huge niche that needs to be filled because we feel kind of the same. Like obviously, if you looked at our show, you'd see us reading a lot of contemporary romance fiction, as is the nature of the show. We read the books that are trending and rate them little shit. Um, but they don't necessarily align with our individual tastes. Um, but it is like I do think it's kind of challenging to find book clubs, definitely, and other kind of in-person communities that cater to that kind of taste. What about Brisbane bookstores? Because I live in Brisbane, but I shamefully don't get around that much. Any that you love.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

This is not sponsored. I just have a deep love of my heart. Curse of Knives in Fortitude Valley. Terry, I love you. She is a queen. It opened up earlier in the year. Amazing range, more of your like contemporary fiction stuff. She has like a book club, which I unfortunately have never been to, but her book club reads are always something that I'm like, that is not my T VR. Like, need to make my way. And she's so lovely. She like reached out to me when I started my book club and she's like, if you like want, I can order inbooks for your book club and I can offer your like book club members 10% off. Like unprompted, like just so lovely and trying to build Brisbane bookish community. Like, she's just so lovely.

Bridget 45:43

Yeah, that's so nice.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

And the store is a vibe. I discovered bent books in West End recently, the secondhand bookstore. Love that place. And I got a copy of um softcore. It's like $10 and in like perfect condition. Like, I just love random little finds that have your like your weirder stuff. Like it's that's that that that is all I yearn for.

Bridget 46:02

And like secondhand cheap is so good as well when you find something that you've been wanting to read. Amazing. I found some real good ones in Bent Books before. And I've only been like four times, so the success rate's pretty high.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

When you discovered it like two months ago, I'm like, I've been in prison for three years now. Why did I not find this earlier? What's what's going on?

Laura 46:22

Before we wrap up, is there anything else you'd like to say on the topic of Weird Girl Lit? Any recs you'd like to throw out? Weird girl or otherwise?

SPEAKER_00 46:31

I've got a pile.

Laura 46:32

Yeah. Run us through them. Do a haul.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

Ironically, most of these are sapphic, um, which says more about me than anything else.

Laura 46:40

We're looking for wrecks, actually.

SPEAKER_00 46:42

Two of them have been book club reads.

Bridget 46:44

Great. Plug away, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

Okay, so my year of rest and relaxation, she is that girl for a reason. Like if you're like trying to get into the genre, perfect, all vibes, no plot, um, but like written in a way that is very accessible to everyone. I think sometimes weird girl, the writing's like, it's too weird. And people are like, like if I started with if I started with Sky Daddy, I'd be like, what? Convenience door woman, stunning, great read. Similar to Sky Daddy in the way that like it kind of sounds like yes, girl give us nothing, but then you actually read it and there's these these beautiful connections. Yeah. And you're like, I found myself very invested. Like it was a short read, but it's like, why am I crying?

Laura 47:25

Yes, I actually read that that was Kate Folk's inspo for or part of her inspo for Sky Daddy, which is good because I was kind of picking up that vibe.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

Yeah, I was too throughout. I didn't actually know that though, so I I feel vindicated my brain. Yeah, you're a general. You were right. Oh, I manifested that. A good person, quintessential bad things happening to bad men. To be fair, he wasn't that bad, but it was a fun read, silly goofy. Speaking of manifestation, this is this book is all about manifestation.

Bridget 47:55

I've not read that one, but I love the cover.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Yeah, would buy. Well, there's another book with a really like it's got the same art because it's like free used, like you're not copyrighted, whatever. So it's like another book, exact same art piece. I can't remember the title, but it also sounds really good. So when I talk about this, my healer, like, I've read that one, I'm like, no, you've read the other one.

Bridget 48:13

This is this is the new one.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

Big Swiss. I've got a book club that I have like with my friends. We read this, we had lots of thoughts. Fun, probably like your like mid-tier weird girl lit. Like, if I wouldn't recommend this for starting, but she's fun. And then one of my favorite books of the year, like, this is a book that I wish I had when I was reading, like my booktop books. And I'm like, this isn't for me, but I'm enjoying reading. Love sick, Lillian Telford, Brisbane author came out recently. This entire thing feels sponsored. I'm so sorry. No, no, this is great. We're taking notes. It is so good, and it's still like a love story, but you have your messy and your real and your relatable main characters. Similar to Sky Daddy, it's like the love is kind of like the secondary theme, and it's all about like trying to like find yourself, like in your 20s, it's messy, it's raw, it's real. I think this is kind of like your good, like, if you're like a romance reader and looking to try to get into weird girl lit, this is your good like stepping stone. It's not necessarily weird girl literature, but it's got your like family relationships, mental health, like it's it's really, really, really good. So yeah, Love Sink were my favourite reads of the year, but one of my other favourite reads, and it was also the first book for my Weird Girl book club, Murder Bimbo.

Laura 49:27

So good. You've given us so many wrecks that I've never heard of.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

That's that's why you're calling me the expert. Yeah, the oracle.

unknown 49:35

This is true.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

Incredible. I had work the next day, and I'm like, no, I need to start reading this book to my book club, so I can start posting about it. And I started it at probably like 6 p.m. curled up on the couch. I finished it at 3 a.m. One sitting. Love that though. That's the best feeling. I finished it. I've just sat with it on my chest. I'm like, I don't know what's real. Because it's like it's unreliable narrated down. And that is like one of my favorite tropes, I guess. I love an unreliable narrator. Um, sorry, they had to sit with it. Oh, it sounds so good. It's really, really good. But yes, those are my recommendations. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

Laura 50:11

Well, thank you so much for chatting to us. This has been utterly delightful. I think we were right to come straight to the source.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. This is if there's one thing I'm I will I can yap about all day, it is weird girl books. Um it's my bread and butter.

Laura 50:27

Delicious. Before we go, where can our listeners find you or your book club uh online?

SPEAKER_00 50:36

So I'm on Instagram. Um, so my page is we go literature or one word. And then my book club page, it's pretty heavily linked to my main page. If you find me, you'll find it. Um, but my book club page is weirdgirl.book club. And we have like bi-monthly meetups. At a time of recording, I have our next meetup next Sunday, which is sold out. And then I haven't planned the next one. So we'll watch this space for our next pick slash date meetups.

Bridget 51:02

That's so exciting. We'll have to come to one one day. Have to make the trek.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

It's a fun time.

Laura 51:07

That was such a lovely chat. And although we've alluded to some of our feelings about Sky Daddy, I think we need to wind it back ever so slightly for this brief, humorous interlude. Bridget, you did a little bit of research on this book. Would you like to tell us what you found? Yes, I found three things.

Bridget 51:27

Cool. First thing I found it was released. Three really interesting things. The first interesting thing is that it was released in 2025 by Random House. Okay. Uh the second thing I found it was actually being nominated or like long listed for quite a few awards. California Book Awards, silver medalist, long listed for the Centre of Fiction, first novel prize, and the VCU Cabell Cable First Novelist Award. And it was nominated as Best Book of the Year by quite a few different publications, including Time, Vulture, Oprah Daily, People, Publishers Weekly, etc. etc. But the most titillating piece of information I found to travel titillating was the rankings of the book on Amazon. So it rated number 31 in dark humor. Okay. It rated number 29 in self-help and psychology humor.

unknown 52:30

Okay.

Bridget 52:31

And possibly the best thing I've ever seen, it rated number one in aviation. Okay. Yes.

Laura 52:39

The people know what they want. I would be so scared if I got on a plane and saw a pilot reading this.

Bridget 52:49

I first saw this ranking quite a few months ago when I was looking at it for some reason, and I went back and had a look the other day to see if it was still there. It's still there. I don't know why this hasn't gone through some sort of quality assurance checks or like ranking checks or something. Because I don't know who's picking up this book who's interested in aviation, but that really tickled me. And that's the end of my research.

Laura 53:11

I love it.

Bridget 53:12

Moving on. I think before we get too far into talking about the book, we have to address the elephant in the room, the aeroplane in the terminal. This is a book about a woman who is sexually attracted to planes. Yes, everyone who knows about this book knows this. Something that I found really, really funny about this aeroplane fetish is actually the origins or like the inspiration for this plot point. I was reading an article in The Guardian titled Flying is an Act of Surrender. A new novel about a woman who wants to be ravished by an Airbus. And Kate said in the article that when she was a child, she read a version of Moby Dick that was modified for children. Later, when she was drafting a novel about a woman sexually obsessed with airplanes, she returned to Melville's classic. I saw Linda as a mixture of Ishmael and Ahab, says folk, adding that she felt both her work and Melville's were about humans trying to dominate the natural world. Both planes and whales involve oil. Yeah. She loved the many different registers of Melville's novel. It's very silly a lot of the time, says folk, calling them gentlemen and fellows.

Laura 54:32

In one interview I read, she was talking about how so much of Moby Dick is just Ahab wanging on about whales. It's just like a total stream of consciousness. And when talking about the process of trying to get into Linda's state of mind and like find her voice, she found that the Moby Dick inspiration of just writing a thousand words a day in the voice of Linda and not worrying at all about the story or not trying to make it coherent to any kind of plot yet, just writing whatever I felt like that day in Linda's voice and putting her in all kinds of different situations, seeing what she would do, or just having her muse about planes. Like in the way of Moby Dick, there's just like musing about whales and cataloguing of different types of whales and all of that. I love that that was the inspo. It's so funny. Herman, Melville, Moby Dick. And then beneath that, planes are the whales of the sky. Linda. And then begins with the opening line, call me Linda. My only note says, Should I have read Moby Dick? Moby Dick retelling.

Bridget 55:44

Along with her inspiration for the sexual attraction to planes, I also found it very interesting to read about how Kate educated herself around the, I guess, technical aspects of aviation, figuring out is it possible to track a certain plane across the country, like all of its flights across the country. She said that she had always been interested in planes, but when she started writing Sky Daddy, she began to really pay attention to the flight safety cards and learning about the particular planes that she was traveling on online. She said that she didn't know how accessible all that information was and she found it fun to track a specific plane, see its schedule, and just become kind of aware of planes being in the air at all times. She said she initially became obsessed with planes when she was sent a link by a friend to watch a YouTube video on the flight channel, which recreates famous airplane incidents. They recreate it with a narrator explaining what's happening. She said the grammar is a little off on the transcribed text, so it all feels uncanny. That got me thinking about planes as almost sentient, mystical beings. Then I started thinking about a woman who's in love with a plane. I had seen a documentary about people with objectum sexuality, which I thought was fascinating, and I thought a plane would be a good object to fall in love with because they're so powerful and they have a face. They kind of look like animals. Once I started writing the book, I saw planes in a whole new way. So now I have my Flight Radar 24 app, and whenever I see a plane flying above, I check the app to see where it's going and what type of plane it is.

Laura 57:26

I will say I was a lot more aware of planes throughout reading this.

Bridget 57:29

Me too. And I remember the first time I was reading it, I was like on the plane and in the terminal. If I read a passage that was like, I admired the handsome face of the I don't know, A380 or something, I'd like to look up from my Kindle and be like, Yeah, I get it. I get it. I think the first time we hear Linda describing the planes happens on page six. And she has taken the train to the airport for a voyeuristic evening, I guess. And she says, Through the window I glimpsed many fine planes resting at their gates. Jet bridges nuzzled their temples, their rear ends pointed provocatively. A beefy Boeing 777 pulled back from F4, pivoting on his slender ankles with surprising grace for such a big fellow. Parked at F twelve I spotted an old friend who went by the tail number N78823, an embraer 175 bound presently for Phoenix, according to my flight tracking app. I'd accompanied N78823 to Salt Lake City a few months ago and found him to be a playful lover, teasing me with a round of turbulence as we descended into SLC.

Laura 58:33

This did make me sharply aware of how few planes I know.

Bridget 58:37

Yeah, I'm like A380 737 Airbus Boeing.

Laura 58:44

Obviously, with our limited knowledge of planes, it wasn't gonna be so easy to assign a plane to ourselves or each other. So I think as always is the case, we need to rely on a quiz. This one is what kind of aircraft are you? And I think the results are gonna be a little bit surprising.

Bridget 59:02

The first question says, What kind of person are you? So we have five different options calm, relaxed, old school, intimidating, high strung, or exciting, fun.

Laura 59:14

These are words straight out of Linda's playbook, I will say.

Bridget 59:18

I'm gonna say exciting and fun. Oh, okay. I'm gonna say calm, relaxed. I don't know if any of them are really me, but that's fine.

Laura 59:25

Number two, what are your hobbies? Reading, poetry, or art, studying history, learning, athletics, relaxing, enjoying life. I don't know if that's a hobby, but okay. Or adrenaline-related activities. I think we have to put reading.

Bridget 59:39

I think so. Although relaxing, enjoying life is a big hobby of mine. Number three, what is your favorite Koei law colour? Doesn't instill a lot of faith. No. Blue or green, black, dark blue, purple, dark green, brown, blue, red, orange, yellow, grey, light green, or light blue. These are so specific. I'm going to go with blue or green.

Laura 1:00:06

Same. Next question. How daring are you on a scale of one to ten? One being not very and ten being extremely. I'm gonna give myself a two. Yep. Same as me.

Bridget 1:00:19

God, we're so fun. Of these years, which stand out the most? So funny. 1980? 1972? 1955, 1913, or 1940?

Laura 1:00:36

What are we being positioned to choose? I'm gonna pick 1913. I'm going with 1980. Oh, the quiz says deep insights are beginning to form.

Bridget 1:00:46

Oh, I can't wait to find out. We've done some crazy quizzes in our time. This might be the most ridiculous.

Laura 1:00:58

Question six says simply, do you prefer open danger, openess, power, scenery, or sp is it gonna give us like a chinook or something? That's for sure. Scenery. Yes, same. He's choosing open danger.

Bridget 1:01:20

Clarity. He's unfolding with every step. Oh my god, the next one is even more ridiculous. On a scale of one to ten, how much firepower do you like? I'm gonna say one.

Laura 1:01:36

I don't know what it is. I might go three to four because I wouldn't want to have not enough. True.

Bridget 1:01:42

Actually, that is true. I'll go two.

Laura 1:01:45

Oh question eight. What is the first letter of your name? F-G-H-I-J.

Bridget 1:01:55

It's very confusing. If only there was a way we could organize these answers in a way that made sense to our brains.

Laura 1:02:03

And I can't think what that way is neither. Then we have S-T-U-W-X-Y-Z. K-L-M-N-O, and finally P Q R V.

Bridget 1:02:17

Okay, well I'm going A B C D E.

Laura 1:02:19

Yeah, K-L-M-N-O for me. You've done beautifully nearly complete. Mine simply says almost done. Your honesty matters deeply. Please be honest about your name.

Bridget 1:02:29

Of the randoms listed below, which do you prefer? U S M C firepower, the number two, speed, or mountain views?

Laura 1:02:42

I actually feel like a spell's being put on me and I don't know what's happening. I'm gonna go mountain views. Same. It sounds the most pleasant. Should I pick something different? No, I've gotta be honest. My honesty matters.

Bridget 1:02:56

Yeah, we had different initials.

unknown 1:02:58

True.

Laura 1:02:59

And then finally, as if that weren't random enough, how much time do you spend on average per week being physically active? I mean, I always struggle with this, but I guess if I go to the gym most days and you know, walk to catch the bus or around the towns and villages. Yes. Five to eight hours?

Bridget 1:03:19

Yeah, I guess it's like an hour a day.

Laura 1:03:21

I'll go with that.

Bridget 1:03:22

Yeah, I'll go with that too. All done, let's see your insights. Oh, okay. Bridget, would you like to reveal your results? I would love to reveal my results. My results? The aircraft that I am is warrior spirit. Ah. Is that where you go? Yeah. You embody resilience and strength, much like the iconic Avro 504 biplane with a rich history and impressive speed. You're a fighter who stands the test of time. Share your adventurous spirit with friends. Spread the awesomeness. I got Avro 504 biplane, a true warrior.

Laura 1:04:01

What's your result? Should I put that on LinkedIn? I think you should. This is ridiculous. What answers did either of us give that possibly indicate we have an adventurous spirit?

Bridget 1:04:14

Resilient strength or impressive speed. Oh god. Well, I'm glad we know.

Laura 1:04:20

I didn't hear the Avro 504 biplane mentioned once in this book, so I don't think Linda would care much about it.

Bridget 1:04:25

No. Okay, well, as always, I'm very glad we did that quiz. I feel enlightened. We are, you know, one step closer to true enlightenment, I think, after that.

Laura 1:04:36

So we've already talked about how unexpectedly touching and relatable and deep this book is, and at the heart of all of that is our protagonist, Linda. Bridget, what did you think about Linda?

Bridget 1:04:47

My main thoughts about Linda could be summed up in the words of the YouTuber Fred from, I don't know, 2009. I'm familiar. In the video specifically, Fred goes to the park where I think he goes on the swing, and then he falls off the swing and he goes, My heart hurts. This is a deep cut. And that's how I felt reading it. She was just trying to live her life at the same time as trying to fit in with other people. I love the way that she accepts people and she accepts their proclivities. Let a thousand blossoms bloom as far as Linda is concerned. I loved her. What did you think about Linda?

Laura 1:05:30

Yeah, I loved Linda so much too. And I think what was so amazing about this book was like, yeah, Linda's weird. But I never felt that I was being positioned to laugh at Linda. I just found her to be so relatable in the way that she was trying so hard to be accepted and fit in, but also like so terrified of being seen. Although she has this plain fetish that I think like holds her back from participating in society. Society, like out of that fear. Every time you saw her interact with one of her co-workers or whoever it may be, like the ladies at the VBB, it was like she seemed so deeply normal. Like there were so many moments where she was so empathetic and so kind, where she said things to people in response to like insecurities or fears that they'd shared, where I thought, that's exactly the right thing to say. That's such a kind thing to say.

Bridget 1:06:23

Yeah.

Laura 1:06:24

And I loved that. I loved the plain thing was weird, but it didn't mean that she was constantly misstepping in every scenario.

Bridget 1:06:30

Yeah, because sometimes that can be quite painful to read as well. I think she was really good at reading the room and like think she's quite good at masking and trying to learn the rules for the society. Like, I think a really good example of her doing this is when she's first going to the Vision Board brunch and she's talking about the clothes that she's decided to wear. So she says, I dress carefully for the VBB in light wash jeans, a purple sweater Karina had persuaded me to buy on one of our post-happy hour trips to Forever 21, and a denim jacket, also from Forever 21, which I'd purchased because I'd seen young people on the bus wearing them. She's positioned to be this outsider looking in and like just trying to do the right thing, I guess. And I think she is quite good at figuring out the context and figuring out like the societal norms and whatever. And I think that's a big reason why she's good at her job, because she kind of sees the world as if it's the video sharing website where she works. And so she's familiar with the terms and conditions and she can understand the subtext behind what people are saying. Um I guess she's quite analytical in a way. Another example I can think of is early in the book, she's at work and she's reading through the comments that have been flagged for potentially being harassment, and it's a picture of a girl, and her friends are in the comments and they're just like gassing her up. She says the queue fed me a string of flagged comments on a video of a teenage girl's morning routine, calling her such names as slut, bitch, cum dumpster, ugly whore. But thanks to my expertise, I understood these comments were in good fun. Playful ribbing among friends. One comment read OMG, I hate your perfect skin, you C-U-N-T, which the video poster had liked and replied to with a kissing face emoji. I was intimidated by the girl's popularity. When I was her age, I'd been exempt from such camaraderie, but I couldn't permit envy to impede my judgment. I applied the green button to the comments, allowing the girls to continue enjoying their youth. And then later, she's found success at the vision board brunch. She's presented her vision board, it's been accepted with the help of Karina. Karina's kind of translating the weirdness to the acceptable terms. And she's kind of invited back to the vision board brunch. And she says, next time, I couldn't believe it. They seemed to like me in spite of my board, which was so different from theirs. I'd shown them a sliver of my true self, and they'd accepted at least this partial measure of me. I felt an overwhelming affection for these women. Recalling those teen girls from my moderation queue who'd harassed their friend, calling her a cum dumpster. Perhaps I'd finally been inducted into a similar sorority. And I love the way she analyses things that are going on around her without judgment.

Laura 1:09:22

I think analysing the situation without judgment was really what sort of subconsciously struck me. One example that I thought of was when she was speaking to Kevin, the Chen's son, and she's gone to have a chat to the Chen's and they don't like it. Actually, I was like, Linda, stop doing that.

Bridget 1:09:42

It's like the only time I was reaching through the book, yanking her out of that room. Get out. And so it's so sweet at the same time. It's gonna make me cry.

Laura 1:09:58

Kevin comes to the door of her cube, which is the windowless room that she sort of illegally resides in in the Chen's house, and he says, My parents, you know, they get nervous. I gathered he was referring to my room slapdash construction and lack of a secondary exit. It's better for you not to remind them you live here, if you want to keep living here. I remembered the mornings I'd seen Kevin on the bus on his way to SF State while I was bound for acuity. We didn't speak, but he'd acknowledged me with a nod that made me feel like I belonged in human society. I'd been so grateful for those small movements of his youthful head, though I now realized he must have avoided me on the walk to the bus stop, as I never noticed him until we were already jostling down 19th Ave. I promise I won't enter the main house again, I said. I think that's for the best. Thanks, Kevin. You're really looking out for me. It's just like any other protagonist or me, the protagonist of my own life, would be so hurt by that and so unable to move forward. But she's just sort of digesting information and moving on with her life. Yeah. When she says, suffused by the universe's generosity and no longer content being a ghost. I wanted to exert my newfound confidence upon Mr. and Mrs. Chen. I would inflict upon them my personality, which had been so amply tested at the brunch and proven to be a winning one. Such a sinking feeling reading those lines.

Bridget 1:11:24

And I love the liberal use of exclamation marks as well in this book. So funny. And you were only trying to manipulate me. I'd always hoped I could become part of their family. Yes. Poor Linda. She's so funny.

Laura 1:11:39

Um the scenes with the VBB were so stressful to me. And I love I I could not mentally prepare myself each time I was going in with such a grimace. But they normally panned out pretty well. Yeah. And I loved how she used the information she learned at the VBBs to craft a new way forward. Like when she went the first time around and was like, hang on, I think I'm getting the gist of this manifestation.

Bridget 1:12:05

But I also love how, like, it's not her thing to start with. No. But she's like fiercely protective of it. Yeah, she because Judy says, it's a silly thing we've been doing since college. Linda said, I didn't like how the women were minimizing the ceremony. I'd hoped they took the art of manifestation as seriously as I did.

Laura 1:12:28

And so after the first VVB, like initially she just wanted to put pictures of plane crashes and sexy planes and whatnot, but she realized a little bit the first time around that she had to make it somewhat more palatable. She didn't quite get there. Like, I think they were still slightly confronted by it until Karina contextualized it. Yes. But she comes away from that being like, okay, maybe I do need to marry a pilot to achieve this dream.

Bridget 1:12:53

Yeah.

Laura 1:12:53

And so she writes a to-do list. I opened a fresh note on my phone and tapped out a list of things I would do if I succeeded in becoming intimate with such a man. Discuss flight routes, ask if I can fly in jump seat sometime. Ask to describe experience of being pilot. Affection for planes? Question mark? Build trust over course of years. Marry. Use flight benefits to fly as much as possible. Be united with soulmate plane for eternity. I squinted at my list and deemed it sufficient.

Bridget 1:13:24

I really loved when she first presents her first board at the vision board brunch, and she says they seemed delighted, as though it were the morbid artwork of a child. Stacy curled up on the floor at my feet. Your board is fucking amazing, Linda. She said.

Laura 1:13:45

She seemed a little drunk. Yes, and isn't she doing some weird shit in the last? She's like jumping on her bed.

Bridget 1:13:55

And then she's she's pointing at the guy, the CEO of Airbus, and she said, Who's that? And she taps his face. Linda tells him who she is. And then she said, I felt insulted on his behalf that these women didn't recognize him and that Stacy had poked him.

Laura 1:14:13

But that's like something that's just so great and so beautiful about this book because even in the last BBB where it's held by her within her cube. Her cube, her four square meter cube. Everyone's still kind of like, this is a vibe. And these are women that are outwardly successful with beautiful homes, like quote unquote legitimate careers, husbands, kids.

Bridget 1:14:35

If I worked up to a cube that had garbage bags for seats, I don't know if I would be that accepting with not a window to be seen.

Laura 1:14:43

Yeah, but at least from Linda's perspective, nobody's really shitting on it. No. Who's to say?

Bridget 1:14:51

Another thing I love about Linda is how quickly her opinion can be changed. So when they first go to the Vision Board brunch, before this point, she's like not really a fan of Karina's fiance, Anthony. Like she's heard Karina complain about him a few times. Anthony's come to greet her in the kitchen. She says he was a handsome fellow with sparkling blue eyes and a wide, affable face reminiscent of the A310. Hey Lindy, he said, drawing me in for a hug. You're on board with the boards, huh? As I watched Karina and Anthony flirt, I found myself rooting for their relationship. Karina loved this man the way I loved planes. Knowing this, how could I begrudge their happiness? And then the next page, one of Karina's friends uh kind of like talking shit about Anthony a little bit. Linda says, from their tepid responses, I gathered the women had the same reservations about Anthony I'd held in the era prior to an hour ago when we'd had that nice exchange in the kitchen.

Laura 1:15:53

Even a kind of side character like Anthony just encapsulates exactly what I found so charming about this book. Even though he's kind of a loser, he's still really kind. Like in the section right at the end of the book when Karina's flown so bravely across the country to come and pick up Linda. They're in the airport getting drunker, and Linda says, I asked what Anthony had thought about her coming here. He was all for it. He said, We gotta get Lindy back in time for the wedding, she smiled. It's in three weeks. You're still down to be a bridesmaid, right? I was incredulous. You really want me to do that? Of course. I need you there, Linda. We grew drunker, and in the midst of our merriment, Karina facetimed Anthony and I was treated to a view of his jovial face. Sup, Lindy, he said. You about ready to come home? I was moved by this simple question, and this is kind of the crux of the book. All these years I'd chased planes in pursuit of fulfillment, neglecting the home I'd made in San Francisco, in the windowless room that had probably by now been rented to someone else. I could find another place to live, and a new job, perhaps one well paying enough that I could rent a room with a window. A path forward revealed itself. I would resign myself to the satisfactions of a normal life, without the highs and lows to which I'd been accustomed. I would content myself with eating and sleeping, watching the sunrise and set, spending time with Karina and Anthony and their inevitable children until at an advanced age I died an ordinary death no one would deem tragic. Who was I to insist on more? Beautiful. Beautiful. It's just so nice how everybody shows her these kindnesses after she reveals herself. I think it's just so heartening and so unexpectedly beautiful. Yeah. If we're talking about the people who were nice to her, then we have to talk about Karina. Did you have any highlights for Karina?

Bridget 1:17:41

I loved how Karina seemed to be quite a messy bitch, a bit psychotic. The second vision board brunch was quite funny because she was growing quite disillusioned with the whole concept and the group of women at the brunches. And so she gets up to present her vision board. It says she stood and revealed an uncannily familiar board. Again, it featured photos of weddings and babies. Morgan was the first to react from her seat on the divan near the sliding door to the balcony. Is this the exact same board from last quarter? She said, No, I added some stuff. Karina said, gesturing to the label from a bottle of Bertelli olive oil and a photo of a young woman's face with X's over her eyes and Sharpie. I want to cook more at home, she said, pointing to the oil label. Who's the girl with crust out eyes? Stacy said. That's Beatrice, Karina said. She's always flirty with Anthony, so I hope she gets what's coming to her this quarter. I don't think you can use the boards like that, Esme said. It isn't voodoo. Seeing her through Linda's eyes, she is perfect, she's beautiful, she's well put together. You see glimpses of her freak coming through, especially when it comes to Anthony. Um, and I love those bids. Me too.

Laura 1:18:55

And I guess from her own telling as well, she's freaky and imperfect because one of her major hang-ups. And one of the reasons she's working this shitty job, and one of the reasons she's scared of flying, is because she thinks that she's gonna be punished for bullying a girl that hung out with her very popular friendship group in high school. But despite all of her craziness, she just has so much sweetness and so much heart. Like when she takes Linda shopping or when they go out and they have their brunch, when she's sort of like her ride or die, helping her contextualize maybe how the relationship with Dave is not so ethical.

Bridget 1:19:32

Yeah. Taking photos for the dating profile, wincing at the initial dating photos. It was so sweet when she gave Linda the sad light, the seasonal effective disorder light. I also love how Linda said, I'd never claim to suffer from sad, but I was moved by the gesture of this useless gift.

Laura 1:19:56

I just felt like throughout the book there were so many moments where Karina should have been like, Whoa, hang on, what, Linda? That when it finally got to the moment where she really lashed out at her after they'd gone on their ill-fated flight adventure. And Linda had been like, We're gonna die. Do you want to be my bridesmaid? It was just so gutting to have Karina applying words like freak to Linda. There was a section at Acuity where Linda goes up and says, Hey, can we talk? And she's kind of brushing her off. You can sense she's getting increasingly desperate. I just want to explain. I wasn't honest with you. Everything was true, like blah blah blah. Like it wasn't a joke. I'm just trying to protect you. And then Karina says, Anthony thinks you did it because you're jealous. Then she goes on to say, You can't stand that we're getting married. Is that it? Because no one wants to marry a freak like you. Linda says, That's not true. I don't want to get married. Not to another person, at least. Karina says, See, what the hell is that supposed to mean? You're fucking weird, Linda. And Linda says, I was hurt by what she'd said. And then the days after I avoided her, just as she had avoided me. Without Karina, without flying, I had nothing to look forward to.

Bridget 1:21:10

She really does love Karina so much. After they've had that flight where Karina's had to get off the plane, she resolves herself to not participate in this lifestyle anymore. And she says, If I believed flying with Karina brought danger to her, the same threat applied to anyone who flew on the same plane as me. I did not want to bring harm to others. I would live out my remaining days without flying. I'd live a celibate life, and maybe one day my friend would forgive me.

Laura 1:21:36

There was a quote from Kate Folk that was so great. She said, Linda's character could easily have become more nihilistic and cynical, and that didn't really feel right for a character who has this thing about her that she knows is strange, but that she doesn't doubt for a second. And I love that.

Bridget 1:21:50

I've already talked about this review a little bit when we were talking to weird girl literature before, but on the back of my book it says wonderfully weird and worryingly convincing. And that was a feeling I had throughout the whole book. I was like, wow, I am Linda. Linda is me in particular. When they were at the nightclub, she was dancing with Karina on the dance floor, and Karina said that she needed a drink, she was gonna go off and get them drinks. And prior to Karina leaving, she had been having quite a good time dancing, and she was feeling good, she was feeling loose, she was feeling free. But in Karina's absence, it says my self-consciousness descended. I looked at the enraptured faces of the club goers and felt embarrassed for us all. And I feel like that is a feeling I have a hundred percent had at a nightclub. Yeah, like split second realization of what are we doing? Post-club clarity. Yeah, what why are we why are we all doing this? And then there was another point when she was on the plane. I think she was with Dave at this point, you know, heading off somewhere, and there were some unruly customers on the plane. She says, a flight attendant walked down the aisle, taming the unruly passengers. She instructed them to push their bags fully under the seats in front of them, to fasten their seatbelts and raise their seatbacks. I was surprised they'd already had a chance to recline their seatbacks in the minutes after boarding, and that they weren't aware their seats had to be upright before takeoff. Had they never flown before, were they stupid, mutinous, or merely drunk? It was for the best I hadn't become a flight attendant, as I would have found it difficult to maintain equanimity around people who were so disrespectful of planes. I've had that exact thought so many times. You idiots. What do you mean you haven't put your seatbelt on? Yeah. What do you mean you've reclined your seat? It's a two-hour flight from Sydney to Brisbane. You don't need to rest. You're sitting in a seat.

Laura 1:23:52

Have some decorum while you're putting feet on my foot rest.

Bridget 1:23:56

The seatbelt signs on. Put your seatbelt on. Yeah.

Laura 1:23:58

I'm with her all the way. Side note the section where she was describing trying to become a flight attendant and like collapsing into the seats in ecstasy and failing her exams was a real low point. That was stressful and excruciating.

Bridget 1:24:15

I think the three low points for me was number one when she tried to speak to the Chens, tried to integrate herself into the family. When she failed the flight attendant exam, and the third was when she was taking photos of herself in lingerie to post on the dating profiles in the harsh lighting of her cube.

Laura 1:24:36

Hang on, we can't overlook when she was filmed. Oh, forgot about that. Filmed touching Dave's penis in the cold.

Bridget 1:24:46

She cared about that though.

Laura 1:24:47

She didn't care one bit, and neither did he. And then they remaintained a friendship. Personally, I couldn't move past that, but to each their own. And she was sort of like more concerned about disrespecting the planes than being like having a sex tape on the internet.

Bridget 1:25:02

Yeah.

Laura 1:25:03

Okay, we're at the end point of the episode. The point that listeners worldwide are on the edge of their seats begging for most favourite and least favourite characters. Bridget, fire away.

Bridget 1:25:14

My most favourite character is Linda for all the reasons I've already mentioned. How about you? Yes, same. Karina is a very close second, though. Yes. How about your least favourite character?

Laura 1:25:25

Um, least favourite without too much thought being put into it. Um, that is to say, none. Uh, would possibly be either like her mum or her brother. Yeah.

Bridget 1:25:36

Maybe the stepbrothers. But I mean, they were all fine. Yeah.

Laura 1:25:40

They're all just people living their lives. I actually don't think there's too many bad people to choose from. The Chens.

Bridget 1:25:48

I mean, they did have a windowless room for rent. I think them. But they provided her with a home. True, I guess.

Laura 1:25:55

I hope there's not someone really obvious that we're overlooking here. Like a Nazi. I guess. They're all pretty good. Well, I don't think there's much doubt in the minds of our listeners, but Bridget, do you rate Sky Daddy by Kate Folk lit or shit?

Bridget 1:26:09

Oh, it is lit. How about you? Yeah, it is lit. God, it feels so good to have lit books. I can't remember the last one that we've had. I guess Lena Dunham. Actually, take back everything I just said. Fault in Our Stars was lit. Fame sick was lit. The Catcher and the Rye was lit.

Laura 1:26:29

Yeah. But you know, this is a book that is so perfectly for both you and me. Yes.

Bridget 1:26:34

This is the first one we've read in a while that is like our reading taste as adults.

Laura 1:26:39

Yes. And outside of the podcast books, this is also one of the best books I've read all year. So it's a nice change. It is a nice change.

Bridget 1:26:50

We'll be back later this month for a bonus chapter. But in the meantime, leave us a rating and review wherever you're listening to this podcast. Have your say of what we read next by keeping an eye on the link in our show notes and on our socials. Make sure you subscribe to the show. And if you want to be on the same page as us, follow us at twelve.get on Instagram and TikTok.